EllieFound this on the bird site so credit is @martintheirish but thought worth reading. Particularly the final sentence. Impossible not to see that #tory ministers pulled the strings. #motd #lineker #bbc
Duncan Batey@ellapple depends when this was - as I understand it the BBC changed their guidelines about this kind of thing a couple of years ago, from yeah whatever to no don't. Whether that was an appropriate change is worth challenging though, I think.
@FakePlasticDunk date was September 2021, so not sure if that’s close enough to two years. Irrespective I think the wider context of influence on and within #bbc and particularly regarding #Sharp is a very real issue. That and the 36 / 37 MPs who asked BBC to act.
@ellapple Sure, I agree that the wider issue needs challenging. I just think it's helpful to be clear and accurate on what we are challenging and how, otherwise our arguments are easily undermined. If the guidelines were changed between the two incidents then flagging up the inconsistency or double-standards over those incidents leads nowhere, they'll wriggle out of it. Rightly or wrongly, things change and get changed. The question then becomes is that change ok?
@FakePlasticDunk indeed. It then becomes even wider in terms of what level of freedom of speech is acceptable and under what conditions. So would Ian Hislop as editor of a magazine that is frequently critical of government be acceptable or unacceptable.
It surely should be possible to hold and express personally held views when clearly not working nor expressing on behalf of employers. Tricky boundaries to navigate. Tho I still disagree with BBC actions on this.
It surely should be possible to hold and express personally held views when clearly not working nor expressing on behalf of employers. Tricky boundaries to navigate. Tho I still disagree with BBC actions on this.
@ellapple Me too, I think they've made a complete hash of it! Almost a textbook example of how to lose friends and alienate people. I mean, in many ways I love the BBC and think it's wonderful that it exists and does what it does, but some of the recent and current management appear to be the wrong people for the job at hand, have got there by dubious means, and have subsequently made some very dubious decisions. Something's got to change. But I'd hate to see the BBC break, in much the same way as I'd hate to see the NHS break.
@FakePlasticDunk I agree. BBC does lot of good work but now they need to rebuild trust. I just hope it is not a Tory move to trash both BBC and NHS ( tho fear the worst with the latter). Both can be great institutions but they need to be adequately funded and supported.
@ellapple I wonder re BBC if some of it is due to fear about the future of the licence fee. I listened to a programme about that (on Radio 4, naturally), and it seemed to me that the only viable way forward was going to be making it part of general taxation. Apparently that had been considered right at the outset of the Beeb, but it was rejected on the grounds of fear of government influence (oh the irony).
Since then there have been countries (I forget which) who did take that route, and didn't feel that that had been the outcome, as it was carefully legislated to avoid that - and that might be where the fear lies, that when that does get legislated they want to have given government as little weaponry or excuses as possible to limit their independence.
We shall see, I suppose, because as far as I can see there's really no way the licence fee approach can continue much longer in this streaming age.
@FakePlasticDunk I would concur albeit many people happily subscribe to multiple providers. Beeb had always stood out differently or at least tried to and has much great content. Now the influence shows.
It’s in the realm of news and information I feel we see greatest influence and a degree of dumbing down. ‘Breakfast’ at times feels bit like Hello magazine. That said my car is permanently on R4 often from 6.30 am when I have longest drives.
It’s in the realm of news and information I feel we see greatest influence and a degree of dumbing down. ‘Breakfast’ at times feels bit like Hello magazine. That said my car is permanently on R4 often from 6.30 am when I have longest drives.
@ellapple The funny thing is that those on the right complain it's biased to the left, and those on the left say it's biased to the right! They get shot by both sides.
I think if they went the subscription or advertising route then it could no longer be Public Service Broadcasting, it would become something else, and that would ultimately be a loss.
@FakePlasticDunk they need to decide if they really want to be an independent impartial public broadcaster and if they do, change some of the personnel at the top. And several presenters come to mind as well.
@ellapple Well, yes. The thing is, people are never impartial, not on the inside. The question is whether they can act and speak impartially in context. Which I think is probably almost impossible to carry off completely, as I don't believe any of us can be completely in control of ourselves - our inner biases are always going to sneak out in some way, often without us noticing, however hard we try - even in how we perceive and judge impartiality.
The best any institution valuing impartiality can do, I think, is set up oversight, checks and balances, such that impartiality is always being aimed at, even when, and especially when, it is inevitably wobbled off course by one or more of its constituent parts.
The question then becomes can those at any level notice when they or those they manage have gone off target, and course-correct - and how quickly and effectively can they do that. It's a tough ask, I think, and perfection in it at all times nigh-on impossible to achieve.