Steven BeschlossVladimir Putin is a murderous thug who launched a war in Ukraine a year ago to steal Ukrainian sovereignty and end their democracy by committing mass murder and terrorizing destruction. But sure, tell me again how Zelensky and the Ukrainians should negotiate for peace with him.
Reynardine@StevenBeschloss I think there are some of us still capable of remembering the lessons taught us between 1938 and 1945 on that account. The rest of us had better be reminded.
ramshackle@Reymohamme5 @StevenBeschloss one of those lessons was that the soviets were willing to put 26 million people through the meatgrinder and keep fighting. Not sure how that breaks down between Ukraine and Russia but its a pretty grim lesson nonetheless.
@ramshackle @StevenBeschloss
They had to, as they were being invaded by an enemy that intended genocide ("Hunger Plan", q.v.) and were committing it as they went. Ukraine is in that exact situation now. Russia (the invader) can quit any time and be no worse off.
They had to, as they were being invaded by an enemy that intended genocide ("Hunger Plan", q.v.) and were committing it as they went. Ukraine is in that exact situation now. Russia (the invader) can quit any time and be no worse off.
@Reymohamme5 @StevenBeschloss Russia as a nation sure. But Putin can't. His future is contingent on being perceived by people who matter in Russia as competent, ruthless and patriotic. The siloviki can't pull out for the same reason, and no one else gets any say in the matter. It was a remarkably stupid thing for them to invade, but now they are in, there is no upper limit to the number of Wagner mercenaries they're willing to consign to zinc boxes to avoid embarrassment.
@Reymohamme5 @StevenBeschloss Maybe they consolidate their positions along the dnipro and call it a win. That's probably the least terrible of a bunch of really terrible outcomes. In a perfect world they'd be kicked out of the 4 oblasts too, but we've never seen a nuclear power in a hot war losing territory they claim as part of the homeland, and I'm not as wildly optimistic about how that would turn out as most.