Scott JensonAnother Hotel, another bizarre #UXDesign example: salt and pepper shakers. Which one is which? Great example of "icons aren't always enough"
Glenn Fleishman@scottjenson @robpegoraro The salt could at least be morse code (dot dot dot), but the pepper is labeled…I.
Nelson@scottjenson My partner suggested that since the word "salt" is shorter than "pepper", the salt is the 2 dots and the pepper is 3 dots.
It's not a big deal so long as you want both salt and pepper, you just put some in your hand to see if you guessed right. If you only want one, then there's a 50% chance you're going to waste some that you'll have to throw away.
pgcommunication@skyfaller @scottjenson "Just" pour some in your hand...and if you guessed wrong, drop it on the hotel floor? The real victim isn't the diner, but the hotel worker. (Doesn't @thomasfuchs have a discussion going about the problem of #just in #uxdesign ?)
Worse yet, you really need to test BOTH containers, because without transparency, it's hard to detect tampering by mischievous children.
@pgcommunication I was assuming a cafeteria setting where there is an obvious garbage can that you could throw it in.
And if you suspect tampering, no labeling or UX should entirely satisfy you. Even if the container is clear so you can see the material inside, there are a lot of chemicals that could look like table salt but are not. Practical jokers are the worst.
dragfyre@scottjenson Weirdly, the convention is: the pepper shaker has more holes than the salt shaker.
Source: A lifetime observing salt and pepper shakers too closely
@dragfyre that was the case here as well! I find that convention arbitrary
mattkingsfan
Uncle CharlieA@dragfyre @scottjenson I was about to post just the opposite! I thought the salt always had more holes than pepper!
@UncleCharlie @dragfyre
Hence the entire point of my post! It doesn't matter what the answer is, they are both opaque. The design is flawed
Hence the entire point of my post! It doesn't matter what the answer is, they are both opaque. The design is flawed
Matt Hauger@dragfyre @scottjenson That’d be my guess, too, but… would I be sure before the first shake?
Ian McKellar@scottjenson
Should be Morse code for S & P.
Should be Morse code for S & P.
@scottjenson
Is the salt "..."?
Is the salt "..."?
Doug 🌈🇨🇦 
@scottjenson
Salt on left. Salt pours faster than pepper so always has fewer holes.
Salt on left. Salt pours faster than pepper so always has fewer holes.
@Oldfartrant unless you're in a humid climate, then it's the opposite. Either way, is a technical distinction and should be more obvious
Richard 🏳️🌈@scottjenson I would do 2 holes salt, and three holes pepper.
Too much salt, for me anyway, is worse than too much pepper.
@scottjenson visual. Show the seasoning as any amount of icon/visual/language based indication is subject to interpretation and geographical/cultural difference. Obviously visual representation has shortcomings too though.
@Areoff agreed but I think there is a hack here to exploit: many common Western languages have a word for salt that begins with S and the same is true for pepper. So using S and P, which at first seems impossible might actually work (I'd normally never suggest letters as labels but it might work?) NOTE I'm not claiming this is universal
suzietchi@scottjenson what’s the logic behind this? Which ones supposed to have what?
@Suzie97 It's very confusing! 2 for salt, 3 for pepper (but apparently this can vary by country. I think a clear container is much more obvious (or white and black)
Kirk McElhearn@scottjenson Three holes salt, two holes pepper. Because you use larger quantities of salt than pepper. I’ve seen many variations of this over the decades.
@mcelhearn BZZZZT Wrong, it was the opposite (in this case) Don't worry people have been replying all day with 'the right' answer and it turns out to be completely arbitrary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_and_pepper_shakers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_and_pepper_shakers
@scottjenson Well, I have been living in Europe for nearly 40 years, so perhaps I’m not wrong. :-) in the States, I honestly don’t recall seeing salt and pepper shakers that weren’t transparent in restaurants.
@mcelhearn of course you're not "wrong" but your choice wasn't correct - for my case. Mine was the opposite of yours. That was my point, it's arbitrary so your opinion (and mine!) are irrelevant. There is no "correct answer" which was the whole point of my post
Iαη 🍺@scottjenson Yes I know people who reverse the salt and pepper that I'm used to. I like discovering eye openers like that. In software too. Where many people never question legacy conventions that might no longer apply. And some are even counterproductive.
Carlos Rodríguez@scottjenson Usually salt shakers have more holes than pepper ones, I guess because people put more salt than pepper in their food. So I’m willing to bet the one with three holes is the salt.
Ben Ramsey@carlosrodriguez @scottjenson This is interesting because I always assume the other way—salt granules flow more freely than pepper, so you want fewer holes in your salt shaker to avoid over-salting.
But maybe I’ve been wrong about this. 🤔
@ramsey @scottjenson Turns out it varies depending on the country: https://www.thesaltandpeppershakermuseum.com/1Question
@carlosrodriguez @scottjenson I know exactly where that museum is, but I’ve never been, despite us going to Gatlinburg almost every year. I’ll try to make it when we go later this year.
@ramsey @scottjenson And it all started with someone taking a picture in other part of the world. Butterfly effect amarite?