Laurie VossFeb 11, 2023
You're not stupid for using a framework, and nobody has pulled a fast one on you. https://seldo.com/posts/the_case_for_frameworks
The case for frameworks

Today I read Alex Russell's post The Market for Lemons and I found myself compelled to write a rebuttal. I am a big fan of Alex's work in general but not of this post in particular, which is very long, so allow me to attempt to summarize it

Show threadKyle Shevlin

@seldo his article, as are most things that he writes, was very frustrating to read.

I honestly don’t know how he has a job some times.

Feb 11, 2023 at 4:20pmMetatext
Show threadraraujoFeb 11, 2023
@kyleshevlin @seldo Agreed, tons of good intentions but completely shadowed by the anger and disdain in the tone.
Show threadDušan MitrovićFeb 13, 2023
@raraujo @kyleshevlin @seldo We shouldn't tone police. Some people write articles with a negative sentiment, especially those born out of frustration. We should carefully evaluate what was said, not how it was said.
Show threadKyle ShevlinFeb 13, 2023
@seldo @raraujo @dusnm bullshit, this isn’t tone policing. It’s his literal job to persuade people to do things his way, and how you deliver a message kinda matters when that’s your job. Constantly shitting on the people you’re trying to reach isn’t a good strategy, and he’s been doing it that way for years.
Show threadDušan MitrovićFeb 13, 2023
@kyleshevlin @seldo @raraujo I read his article and even if it’s a bit on the difficult side, I disagree with your assessment that it’s unconvincing. The arguments are kind of on his side. React was never all that scalable, for instance.
Show threadDušan MitrovićFeb 13, 2023
@seldo @raraujo @kyleshevlin I also disagree with the sentiment that we should persuade people by pandering to them. It’s okay to write negative articles if your assessment is negative. Something doesn’t have to be likable to be true.
Show threadKyle ShevlinFeb 13, 2023
@dusnm @seldo @raraujo it’s not pandering. It’s common sense. Knowing your audience is fundamental to any communication. You don’t talk to all people the same way, you engage with them in the way best suited for communicating with them.
Show threadKyle ShevlinFeb 13, 2023

@seldo @dusnm @raraujo his message is “hey, this thing 71% of you like using at work isn’t perfect and you’re a shitty person for using it” 🙄

A smarter message would be “React is extremely popular and won’t be going away any time soon, how can we reduce the negative impact it has? Can we improve the library? Can we make it easier to not use React for static portions of applications?”

Show threadDušan MitrovićFeb 13, 2023
@raraujo @kyleshevlin @seldo I in no way whatsoever got that from the article. If anything, the article is full of vitriol for the creators of React. And I tend to agree with his statements all throughout. The ridiculous compromises you have to make when using React are astonishing. Tell me that employing SSR to offset how mind numbingly slow React is isn’t a hack. That shouldn’t have to be done.
Show threadKyle ShevlinFeb 13, 2023

@seldo @dusnm @raraujo you can’t shit on a framework without shitting on the people who choose to use that framework, who make a living from using that framework.

His audience is devs, not the React core team. His vitriol can’t be isolated to just that team.

Alex has given us no reason to actually listen to him for years. I don’t care to argue about this anymore. I’ve lost interest. I’m gonna mute this now.