@jenniferplusplus If you're hired by a company to do a job are you then entitled to work for that employer for decades until you decide you're ready to move on?

Would it be better if they just fire everyone randomly with no severance?

Many of these layoffs with their sizable severance packages don't really seem to be the humanitarian disaster they're made out to be in my eyes.

Would it be fair that you can quit at any time for any reason, but they can't ever quit you?

@luke

Why choose those two rather extreme alternatives which probably almost no-one would agree with?

Why not consider "If you're hired by a company which can very well afford to keep on hiring you, the default ought to be that they do". Does that scenario not feature in your thinking?

@unchartedworlds If you subscribe to HBO because you want to watch Game of Thrones - do you keep subscribing indefinitely, with 4% cost of living increases year over year because you can afford it?

This doesn't feature in my thinking because that's not how capitalism works. There have been layoffs as long as there have been companies.

Does the scenario where you agree to all the terms and conditions of employment and the laws of your state when you're hired not factor in to your thinking?

@luke

Re "that's not how capitalism works":

Seems like you're coming from "you silly people, don't you understand this is the way the world is?" But there's a difference between "I don't understand what's going on" and "I don't think this setup is good for the average human being".

https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2023-01-30/column-how-big-tech-is-using-mass-layoffs-to-bring-workers-to-heel

@unchartedworlds sure. We can have a marxism vs socialism vs capitalism discussion all night.

The thing is we as a society have decided on capitalism.

Expansion and contraction of markets is pretty normal for a capitalist society. It is not right to vilify The Company for playing by the rules of the game and the demands of it’s shareholders.

Layoffs suck, yes. The largest tech firms laying off 10% of their workforce is not class warfare though. It’s just not.

It’s a bummer.

@luke

"we as a society have decided on capitalism" is an odd way of putting it, considering we were born into a system which was already running.

and it's a system in which the richest have disproportionate power to set the terms of exchange, and disproportionate power within politics & media. That's part of why it's hard to change towards fairer shares for the 99%.

@unchartedworlds yes. When I say “we” I’m referring to America. I understand that you do not like capitalism. There are clear problems with it.

You were born into a democratic capitalist republic though.

You’re free to explore communist, socialist, and dictator led countries now and throughout history. Then we can talk about the big tech class warfare issue and how inhumane and evil layoffs with 6 figure severances and/or government unemployment assistance are.

@luke

Well, I'm in England, so it's not a republic. But yes, I'm not convinced that "being born into a capitalist society" is the same as "deciding on a capitalist society", when my power to change it is very limited.

@unchartedworlds what? You just famously decided to leave the EU.

You've had a democratic socialist party on your ballots for 100 years.

https://www.marxists.org/history/international/comintern/sections/britain/brs/1951/51.htm

As a free person, which I assume you are - you're welcome to go try living in a communist society like china or cuba, or a dictatorship like Sudan or Myanmar.

In that context capitalistic corporate layoffs may not seem so extreme.

The UK has an unemployment rate of 3.7% which means work is not all that hard to find.