Aurynn Shawso I've started seeing Mastodon apps fetch posts in threads from other servers directly, bypassing server blocks.
This is ... this is deeply concerning to me.
mostly_harmless@aurynn I don't see anything wrong with people being able to access content from servers that have been blocked by their own server, as long as they are made aware of this happening.
I don't think people should be forcefully blocked from viewing content on their own devices just because the administrator of the server they happen to be on wants to block that content.
It's fine for one server to block another, but it's also fine for people to decide on their to unblock it for just themselves.
Deborah Pickett@mostly_harmless (Untagging Aurynn because you’ve blocked her, oh, the irony) If you find yourself on an instance where the people you want to read have been instance-blocked by your admin, that should be a very strong signal to you that you are on the wrong server and that you should move. Any client feature that hides this signal from you by working around a block is acting counter to the concept of federated communities.
@futzle But it's not happening on the server. It's happening on the individual user's device, and everything that happens on their own device is their own business and no one else's.
What's next, if the server admin doesn't like me playing solitaire on my computer now I have to uninstall it because I can only do things on my computer that the server administrator allows?
I blocked her for hurling obscenities at me with no justification.
@futzle Also, I don't care if she uses an app to see my posts even though I blocked her. I don't block people to stop them seeing my posts. I block people so that I won't see their posts.
I guess we just approach this from totally different directions.
@mostly_harmless That would be the privilege that you were accused of having. Some of us need to block to prevent others seeing our posts. You don’t need to do that. Recognize that your position is a privileged one.
@mostly_harmless You have missed my point, but that’s ok, because you probably wouldn’t agree with it anyway. If you need this client feature, it’s because you disagree with the decisions of your admin. So get a different admin, or become your own admin. On the Fediverse moving is so easy! And that’s where your solitaire analogy breaks down: there are thousands of server administrators for you to choose from, or you can become your own.
@futzle But why would you care if people on the same server as you can see content from other servers that you don't see?
It doesn't actually affect you.
This all seems like an ego-trip to me. It seems like you're not sufficiently satisfied by having undesirable content blocked from your view and require that everyone in your vicinity also have that content blocked from their view.
I have a mormon coworker that throws fits when people drink coffee. This reminds me of that.
@mostly_harmless I think you and the OP are having a community/individualism impedance mismatch.
Instance blocks (and server rules and timely moderation) are tools to define the culture and community of an instance. Not every instance has a strong sense of community (I’m guessing yours doesn’t) but on the ones that do, it’s important to set boundaries and enforce them. No one’s a hostage; as I’ve said twice, it’s easy to move servers on the Fedi.
Your Mormon analogy would be more apt if they were your CEO and instigated a company-wide coffee ban. As you tell it, your coworker is the hostage in a hostile culture but can’t leave (because employment market ≠ Fediverse).
@futzle Thank you for the vocabulary. I like learning new words.
So, question:
Do we have a way of knowing whether or not another user is using one of these apps to view server-blocked content?
I guess if there was a way to see that people are doing this, that could break the sense of community that you are talking about.
If not, then it would seem that the whole issue is a wash, since no one can know what others can or cannot see.
BTW, individualism is my razón de vivir.
@mostly_harmless This'll have to be my last post; I've got to get to $dayjob. It's been illuminating talking to you.
To answer your last question: I don't know. I'm sure that the client announces itself with a user agent string that could be parsed by the server, but user agents are ridiculously easy to spoof. We're entering "technical solution to a social problem" space, which is full of pitfalls and false solutions.
Be well.