Answering this in public:

Their endgame is preserving capitalism, for perhaps three more generations, in the face of quite literally, the end of the world.

The planet is boiling; capitalism goes or we do. The capitalists have made their choice, but they are quite aware that seven billion lemmings are not going to vote the preservation of a wealthy ruling class ahead of pure survival.

Ergo, you must not be allowed to choose. Hence, fascism.

Is it nuts? Absolutely. But LOOK AT OUR RICH PPL?

Have we not built a culture that prioritizes growth and the accumulation of capital above all else? Have we not unleashed the free market on all aspects of society? have we not LEGALLY codified the pursuit of short term profit, over long term sustainability at every turn?

So, then; who is the crazy one? The rich people who are following their clearly stated intentions to their logical conclusions in the face of this crisis? Or folks who expected them to choose anything else?

@AnarchoNinaWrites

Well no. The free market would not give money to certain groups from the federal government to grow industry or ensure food stability. We would not have all these protectionist clauses. And we would not bar trade to certain entities. We do not live under the free market. The baby food disaster for instance? Protectionist causes and restrictions. WIC only gets its supply from one company which feeds half of all infants in USA.

Not a free market.

@Energetic_Nova not a free market. A *capitalist* one. Under capitalism, the accumulation of wealth has the same effect as restricting democracy. Power is concentrated in the hands of a few, who act to protect their monopolies and increase their share of power. Capitalism and democracy, the pillars of a free market, literally cannot co-exist without fetters being placed on capitalism.
@Iwillyeah
No, we are not under pure capitalism either tho. This is why neoliberalism was created (FDR) to prevent Calvin Coolidge ways of handling things. There is a real reason why we don’t just let the market decide anymore. But not letting the market decide has a huge negative. I think we’ve been at a loss about what to do since the dust bowl. Nobody wants to rid of it cause of the stability.

@Iwillyeah

Really think of it… that one piece of the lifecycle of a business has been prevented by the government. The part where it fails. Whoever owned it is left in ruins, and the people who worked there don’t have a place to work. their retirement might be just gone?
I think we value stability more than the value of something going out, leaving people destitute and it’s wake, but also allowing for other things to rise up in its place.

@Iwillyeah

**big business of course. Or even small businesses are spared the way it used to go….

@Energetic_Nova Iceland showing how it can be done following the European banking collapse. Ireland showing how rich people staying rich looks like economic success, but is actually the next 10 generations paying the bill.

@Iwillyeah

I wrestle with this myself. I am not sure if a big country could really afford to let it all fall. Especially not food or energy. We saw in USA what happens when government pulls away from housing for example…

@Energetic_Nova no, no, government pulling away from housing means that private companies treat it like any other business. Restrict supply for maximum profit. Same with energy. The greatest problem is when the production of these necessities becomes unregulated and commodified, instead of treated like a strategic, crucial pillar of the national interest. Rather than giving companies sectoral support, the government should have been buying stakes in them, making them semi-state bodies.
@Iwillyeah
Government got involved with infant formula. That entire thing was lack of competition and government restrictions and involvement. And huge funding favoritism to only one company.

@Iwillyeah

People blamed the infant formula thing on capitalism. But that isn’t true.

Also, though Elon was already pretty rich before, there is no way without USA picking who was to make their electric cars that Elon would have been a billionaire. It just wouldn’t have happened.

If you need concrete examples of government trying to solve issues… those are some good ones.

@Iwillyeah

Another issue with housing in particular though is it isn’t really the big corporations nor is it the government who is at fault for the current housing crisis. It is the average homeowner. The average business owner. It’s mostly the middle class that has prevented housing.

@Iwillyeah

Yup. Lawsuit lawsuit lawsuit. It’s not some ominous big corporation… It’s not the rich people necessarily… But mostly the average person who doesn’t want their house to go down in value. While some simply object to building something that looks bad in their neighborhood, others will oppose anything that isn’t market value explicitly cause low income housing lowers property value in neighborhoods. 🤷‍♀️

@Iwillyeah there was one person that sued the city of Portland for placing a women’s shelter next to their business.

@Iwillyeah

I have also noticed there are many cases where homeowners use environmental laws to prevent new housing. Because the point out that the traffic the new housing creates will create more oil runoff. Yeah. and they use that as a reason they can’t build housing there.

@Energetic_Nova that's a California star law they're using. The housing crisis appears to be everywhere. In fact, it is global, in every developed nation where housing provision and rental rights are not heavily regulated by the state.
@Energetic_Nova a cursory Google search tells me that was, in fact, a developer who had built 5 office buildings on the block.

@Iwillyeah most developers are actually small in Portland. And most people who own property and rent it out are also small.

so when you’re creating a bunch of laws thinking that you’re targeting big businesses, please notice that the poor people can never buy what you just blocked off

@Energetic_Nova I'm not making a bunch of laws mate. I'm suggesting governments be in the business of build affordable housing.

@Iwillyeah

I am very confused because I think you disagree with me that there should be more housing and more housing regardless if people can afford it or not because eventually the price will go down.

@Iwillyeah

honestly I’m just getting so frustrated lately. People make these laws to protect the environment, and the only people it serves are people who already have.

@Iwillyeah

yeah of course the middle class doesn’t want their valuable things to depreciate in value. Every single person who owns property has an expressed interest to protect their investment. And in general the government cannot afford to keep fighting off lawsuits just to build housing.

@Energetic_Nova middle class homeowners, teachers, nurses, retailers, it consultants, are taking lawsuits preventing the government from building houses?