Ivan Sagalaev 
@gianarb the problem is far less pronounced when you don't read (or write) posts condemning all of this mess. In practice you just use one or two tools that your team uses, and it doesn't take much of your time.
ostpoller@isagalaev @gianarb , exactly! If you don't jump on the next "package manager of the month" all the time and you get to know and master your tools, there is absolutely no problem.
@ostpoller @gianarb I wouldn't go as far as saying there's "absolutely no" problem. But no more than with any set of tools. You get used to it.
Thomas Hartmann@isagalaev @ostpoller @gianarb mamba is the most powerful and versatile tool for the task. Never found a reason to use any other of them... With the exception of micromamba...
@isagalaev @ostpoller @gianarb what other tool can:
1. Manage virtual environments with independent python versions?
2. Take care of system libraries for you without giving it a thought?
3. Offer the vast collection of both the anaconda as well as the pypi repo?
I'm not trolling here. If there is a tool that offers all that and maybe more other than conda/mamba, I would love to hear about it!
1. Manage virtual environments with independent python versions?
2. Take care of system libraries for you without giving it a thought?
3. Offer the vast collection of both the anaconda as well as the pypi repo?
I'm not trolling here. If there is a tool that offers all that and maybe more other than conda/mamba, I would love to hear about it!
@thht the Feature Wars is exactly what's getting criticized by people here. You like your tool — excellent, by all means I am glad for you. Please do realize that it may not work for someone else. And even if it does, may be people are already happy with their solution.
@thht if you want specifics, your point (2) is exactly why I don't use conda or mamba. See, I'm on Ubuntu, and I already have an excellent system package manager. I don't need a third party manager requiring me to give it sudo rights to mess with my system packages. It's going to break it.
But I do understand how it might be useful on Mac or Windows.
@isagalaev Sorry for not being specific enough. There are packages I use that need certain versions of specific libraries. Plus, certain packages need quite specific python versions. Mamba installs these in the virtual environment. It does not need sudo at all. On the contrary, it leaves your system as is. Pypi based solutions like pip and poetry do not ship with these libraries. This is a unique feature of conda/mamba.
@thht thanks, good to know. I'll keep it in mind for the next time I have this use case. As of right now, and really for some years now, I don't. I'm guessing you're coming from a scientific side of Python where the "specific version of packages needing specific Python versions" is indeed a prevalent problem. I'm doing mostly web dev, where it's just not there, so I don't need to switch to anything, and my tools already work for me.
@isagalaev yes, i mainly do scientific computing and before conda/mamba environments needed to be carefully handcrafted and libraries tweaked which made the whole thing very unstable.
But I actually also ran into a similar problem when developing web apps. One, for instance uses LDAP and once in a while created similar problems because the python package depends on the openldap libs...
But I actually also ran into a similar problem when developing web apps. One, for instance uses LDAP and once in a while created similar problems because the python package depends on the openldap libs...
@thht I'm not denying there's a problem. I'm saying that there's quite a lot of people who may never encounter it in the wild, and for them other solutions might work just as well.
@isagalaev absolutely.