mhoyeJan 2, 2023
Look, if a core Bitcoin developer can get their whole wallet emptied out unrecoverably on them, and that developer's immediate reflex is to start calling a centralized authority for help, it's time to stop pretending this entire cryptocurrency exercise is ever going to work. We're done here.
Show threadshanenJan 2, 2023

@mhoye
Is this comment really here? Mastodon is giving me weird messages? Perhaps because you're on a different server?

On the topic of your comment, I've always regarded #BitCoin as an obvious scam. No scarcity there. There's an infinite supply of numbers and an infinite supply of algorithms to pretend that some of the numbers are special and more interesting than others.

Or do I need to repeat the proof that there's no such thing as an uninteresting number?

Show threadCosmic RayJan 3, 2023
@shanen @mhoye
There may be some residual value in the big 2 crypto as they were first and had high values
The easy creation of crypto currencies leads to their expansion until we reach saturation
Show threadshanenJan 3, 2023

@Cosmic_Ray @mhoye

Doesn't matter what number you divide by infinity, the result is still effectively zero. One or two cryptocurrencies divided by an infinite number of them or 21 million Bitcoins divided by infinity. Still no real value anywhere there.

However what makes #Bitcoin into a special criminal scam is how it deliberately wastes power for the lottery tickets. Electric power is a real thing with a limited supply.

Show threadTroed SångbergJan 3, 2023

@shanen @Cosmic_Ray @mhoye Bitcoin doesn't "waste" energy. On the contrary, it's specifically the cost of the energy used that makes Bitcoin the first distributed solution to the Byzantine Generals' problem in Computer Science.

You're however absolutely correct in that if noone wants a global uncensorable value transfer network then of course the bitcoin tokens won't have value either.

Show threadmhoyeJan 3, 2023
@troed @shanen @Cosmic_Ray bitcoin absolutely does waste tons of energy. Miners virtually never do useful work, and the so called “solution” you’re describing is only relevant because of the insistence on irrevocability and zero trust. If you concede that trust or remediation matters even a tiny fraction, the entire bitcoin exercise could be run on a single raspi.
Show threadTroed SångbergJan 3, 2023

@mhoye @shanen @Cosmic_Ray I agree that if you don't want an uncensorable global value transfer service then there's no need for a decentralized solution to the Byzantine Generals' problem.

If you do, however, then Bitcoin's Proof of Work is the first such proven to work. The cost of the energy spent (the work) is what makes the transfers uncensorable (cost prohibitive to attack).

Show threadDuco
@troed @mhoye @shanen @Cosmic_Ray to put "uncensorable" into perspective: it means that all the security we implement in banks to avoid illegal activities can not apply to Bitcoin. So if you are doing illegal things, you benefit from that uncensorability, if you are an honest person it is a disadvantage. At least in democracies.
As banks protect you from others stealing your money and from making mistakes. Bitcoin don't.
Jan 4, 2023 at 5:40pmWeb
Show threadTroed SångbergJan 4, 2023

@duco @mhoye @shanen @Cosmic_Ray Sure. And the Cyprus haircut where regular consumers lost some of the holdings on their bank accounts would be an example of when the banks/government don't do the right thing.

Another would be the recent suggestion in Iran to freeze the bank accounts of women who do not wear a hijab.

Don't assume Bitcoin is not needed at all based on your personal needs.

Show threadDucoJan 4, 2023
@Cosmic_Ray Well, Bitcoin is not needed. What people need are reliable banks. The banks in some countries are not reliable because of mismanagement or politics. That doesn't mean they have to use Bitcoin. They can also use banks from other countries. Like some Russians did and now benefit from it after leaving Russia. And if we go into details there are much more aspects like key safety.