Useful term I discovered this week: “toxic mimicry”. It’s the pattern of substituting systems/organisations/services that look superficially like they fill a core societal need but in fact act to take up the space that a genuine system would fill, and only provide virtual nutrition.

Examples:
- 6pm TV news mimics public discourse
- Malls mimic public spaces
- Daycare mimics collective child rearing

I like the term as it suggests something predatory and insidious.

Another couple of examples I personally am interested in are :

- how the “fitness industry” and gym culture mimics the human need for regular variety and skill development in movement.

- too many to count in the area of food and nutrition.

I want to add the disclaimer that I don’t think the term has value as a reactionary “I don’t like the modern world” sort of thing, but more in analysis to point out the subtle pattern of “thing that looks like it helps but fundamentally doesn’t/can’t, usually for ideological reasons”.

Alexander suggested “predatory mimicry” as an alternative term, and I really like that for situations where the intent is clearly to substitute a false solution when a real one is demanded.

An example might be “plastic recycling” as waste reduction. Most plastics can’t be recycled profitably but we built massive “recycling” systems that till recently shipped the plastic to East Asia (mostly China), where they landfilled most of it.

https://merveilles.town/@cblgh/109599305387546392

Alexander Cobleigh (@[email protected])

@[email protected] or perhaps "parasitic mimicry" to really swing home the predatory and insidious bits

Merveilles
Mental health crisis response is a whole system that mimics what is needed. Public phone lines instead of proactive in-community support, untrained police being sent to do “wellness checks”, forced incarceration as the only means to gain wraparound help. The entire thing is a Potemkin facsimile of a real system.

Correction, the suggestion was “parasitic mimicry”, and all three suggest subtle variations on the theme, to me.

EDIT: removed automatic CW from previous post.

@dznz I've been referred to those phone lines due to depression. Have not hit a point where I need to use them. Had wondered if they are useful at all.

@StephGunther they aren’t without value, I used youthline as a teenager a few times. Thats kind-of the trick with the mimics, they sort-of help but only for superficial cases, or only in ways that don’t also empower people.

A phone line cannot establish a relationship of trust with you. You mostly get a different operator each time, some great, some terrible, but all limited in what they can offer. They can usually call the cops on you, but can’t refer you.

@dznz I wonder if the trouble re people not able to get help is lack of funding or not enough trained counsellors or both. Seems to be a massive problem.
@StephGunther I'd argue that it's structural. A single-serve counselling session is necessarily bounded - unless it's the entry point to a deeper system, which most aren't, there's no next step available to the operators, all they can say is "maybe go see your doctor" or "perhaps a friend could help you sign up to a class" or whatever. They are also, of course, always underfunded etc
@dznz The GPs must be getting so overrun with people they can't refer anywhere.
@StephGunther @dznz at the University of Waterloo I've definitely referred students to Engineering Counselling, where they can have longer term relationships with students. Funding and counsellor availability in the local area have both been issues. Might be better now but the need for services has also greatly increased.
@va2lam @dznz I'd imagine demand for services is up pretty much everywhere.

@dznz
"a Potemkin facsimile of a real system"

I misread that as 'a Pokemon facsimile of a real system' 😁

... which is also apt: catering to children's innate curiosity and 'collecting things' urge, not with info about the real world, but with facile and ultimately pointless pretend things... strikes me as parasitic too.

@EarlOfEmsworth the toy and games field is probably a rich source of examples. Of course, one person’s “pretend things” is another’s “rich inner fantasy world”, so one has to take care with the analysis. The mimic has to fail to fill an identifiable need that the system it mimics does provide.

@dznz
Yup. I was just springboarding from my micro-momentary misread. I'd certainly never suggest all toys should be 'educational'. But - since it cropped up - Pokemon, especially in the mobile-phone, rushing-around craze version, seems particularly pointless. (Yes, I got hooked, briefly 😳)

I mean, it doesn't have to be all train-spotting... but at least train-spotting teaches you about, well, trains. Which is useful for some people to know about. "The Pikachu arriving at platform 1 is the..."

@dznz a few years ago, my wife was watching an episode of Adam Ruins Everything on recycling and it (finally) struck me that “Reduce, Reuse, Recycle” is an ORDERED list. Recycling is the last resort and least effective of the actions!
@dznz the first example of predatory mimicry that comes to mind for me is crisis pregnancy centers (thanks @AngryBlackLady and Jess) mimicking abortion care providers to trick women into carrying unwanted pregnancies to term.
@dznz The clinics that are pretending to be abortion centers, but whose agenda is to delay and confuse ppl so they don’t/can’t have an abortion.
@dznz unless I'm reading his post wrong, it looks like Alexander suggested "parasitic mimicry", which IMO is a much better term than either "toxic" or "predatory". Toxic implies a passive negative quality, and predation is usually obvious. Parasitism, on the other hand, is designed to be hard to detect or do anything about
@jcwirth good spot, I'm not sure how I got that wrong!
@dznz Until recently I have been “we need plastic recycling in NZ, why doesn’t someone do this and the govt help set it up”. Now I know, it’s all false hope and green washing to give us less guilt. The only way to win is not to buy plastic in the first place.
@mikemcmurray even then, we're all made complicit via the packaging of the things we buy etc. Bottom line we need systemic shifts of the materials used in production of all sorts. New material technology (e.g. biodegradable) and old (glass, twine, wood, cardboard).
@dznz Agree. If products have non-renewable materials this needs to be called out, ratings, etc. But then it all gets passed into the consumer as additional cost anyway. Big players and consumer groups have to want to make it happen with genuine desire for a better world, and I am too cynical to expect that. But I hope for it.
@mikemcmurray I’d argue it needs to tightly regulated, just as we should regulate food production better than we do. Of course this is easier said than done when it comes to trade agreements and imported goods, and of course there’s no political will for meaningful change. So it goes.
@dznz
Hyperloop may be another example, reportedly it was proposed merely to (attempt to) get a conventional high-speed rail project cancelled
@dznz It is not even ideological reasons usually, it is usually purely for financial reasons
@stufromoz I tend to be politely sceptical of financial explanations, as they often presuppose an underlying ideological economic position. I’ve also seen them used as thought-ending mystifications that don’t hold up even by their own criteria (eg it is not actually cheaper to let thousands get sick and die in a pandemic)

@dznz Ah, but I find that generally when you cannot see why it is a financial reason, you are not looking at where the money train is...

(and often it is about how it enriches certain donors in some way, that politicians expect to be reciprocated later with jobs...)

@stufromoz I hear you, and “follow the money” is a useful heuristic that does often make things clearer. I’ve just frequently seen it misused in a way that prevents deeper analysis.

Arbitrary example: open office layouts, by all measures, in every study ever done, decrease productivity across the board. But their persistence is often explained as being somehow financially motivated, which obscures the managerial desire to see “work” performed.

@dznz Open office layouts are actually even simpler. The space you need is less than having separate rooms.

And then because it means that middle managers can see people are working (and not goofing off) it became about productivity. When the reality, it started as "we can make this fitout cheaper for you, and fit more people in the floorspace by removing walls and separated offices"

Making offices a symbol of status also means that the plebs cannot see how little managers often do...

@stufromoz a couple of interesting thoughts there. I suppose the first is to note that your final paragraph indicates that they serve the function of enforcing power dynamics, which is not at all a financial analysis.

This serves my point, which is that reaching for “$” as an explanation can be reductive. It’s not that money isn’t involved it’s that I’ve seen it used to dismiss or ignore other mechanics at play. Second thought in next post ⬇️

@stufromoz The thing is that a cheaper fit out is a one-time fixed cost, in exchange for a perpetual reduction in the financial productivity of all employees. The two ways this “makes sense” is if the hand paying the first isn’t attached to the hand paying for the second, or if there are other factors involved, such as the beliefs and culture of the decision makers.

Working from home is the cheapest of all for employers, but they fight it tooth and nail.

@dznz yeah, it is more complicated.. But it definitely started with "if we take out the partitions we can fit more people in this space" And the motivation for that was it made things cheaper...
@stufromoz but even there, I see a set of underlying ideological beliefs: that workers are a kind of resource whose needs should be optimised like one might optimise stock in a warehouse, rather than the very source of all the value the org creates. It presupposes that one should push to the limits of what workers will accept, even if it provably hurts their output. That having more workers is better. That a company should spend as little as they can get away with.
@stufromoz You might agree or disagree with those statements, I don’t want to get too bogged down in any one of them, I just want to demonstrate how ideology/values/beliefs drive economic choices, not the other way around. Ideology is “we know not what we do, but still we do it”. It’s like water to a fish: mostly invisible.

@dznz For me, the fact of open plan as cheaper, started as a financial thing.. Then the feelings of management got involved with the idea that making it a big thing for other reasons (calling it ideology is probably too strong, feelings is probably better) But it started with the "how do I save on office space/fit more staff in this space" idea of cost saving, and grew from there...

Every time anyone proposes to change back, the cost reason is invoked. (I have worked in large and small companies and it still happens)

@dznz not the same thing, but closely related: right-wing fake NGOs with similar names to the real ones
@davidgerard oh totally, like those “pregnancy clinics” that are fronts for anti-abortion propagandists. In some areas (eg healthcare) there are layers of mimicry.
@dznz I’m justvglad I am alive to experience gym culture.
@bsonder hey, it literally saves some peoples lives when they discover they can become stronger and more capable, so I’m not saying there’s no value to it.