Mark SumnerThere is no such thing as a “job creator.” There are employers, who hire employees, *because they need them*. And then employers pay the employees less than the value they generate. That’s the system. How did we get to the point at which people behave as if the wealthy are giving a gift to working people? I realize it’s not a new attitude, but it remains proudly f’d up.
Mike | Abundance Protocol@Devilstower I agree that the system doesn't fairly compensate workers for their labor. The question though is, if an employer pays an employee LESS than what their labor produced, why does the employee agree to such terms and not just produce the labor independently and get the full pay? Not so simple..
Angry Centrist@abundance @Devilstower It's pretty simple. The business and rentier classes have demonized and destroyed the idea of unions, so each employee is on their own rather than having an organization at their backs with similar power to that of the "boss." Nearly all bosses seek to pay the minimum they can, so all the options available to many workers are bad and they talk themselves into taking the least-bad job they can get.
@dkbgeek @Devilstower Yes, as I said, how much money you make in a company often depends on your proximity to management, which is not very fair. But to 'take a job' still implies that someone needs to 'create' the job and 'give' it.
@abundance @Devilstower No capitalist ever woke up one morning and said "I shall create some jobs, because jobs are good for society!" The WPA and CCC created jobs. Capitalists would be just as happy to have the work done by machines that don't take bathroom breaks or get pregnant. They run businesses which employ people but calling them job creators is just marketing. They're employers, or labor brokers.
@abundance @Devilstower Don't misunderstand, by the way. I don't think employers are inherently evil people, many are actually sharp enough to realize that a satisfied workforce benefits them and it's worth making a bit less gross profit to have staff who are happy, productive, and not always looking for the next job. This is NOT a universal attitude among employers, however.
@dkbgeek @Devilstower I agree with that. I don't blame employers. I think the system is the problem. When everyone is supposed to maximize profits you can't really fault employers for doing just that. My point was that it's not inaccurate to say that employers create jobs - even if they don't do it out of the kindness of their heart or if the term is just for PR.