ryan cooperit’s an absolute bloodbath in China https://news.sky.com/story/crematoriums-guarded-by-police-as-china-fights-to-hide-true-toll-of-failed-zero-covid-policy-12771420
"I’m reading things from friends of mine in Beijing, and 80 to 90 percent of the people they know already have COVID. If that figure is transferred to elderly people it’s just going to be a catastrophe." https://prospect.org/world/what-now-for-china-kurlantzick-interview/
"several models predict that a half million people could die, possibly more." h/t @stephenjudkins https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/12/15/1143002538/china-appears-to-be-facing-what-could-be-the-world-s-largest-coronavirus-outbrea
Randall
Free Speech Abolitionist@ryanlcooper no wonder Chinese officials were trying so hard to contain the virus. They buckled under public pressure to ease restrictions, but thankfully there are plenty of tested vaccines and treatments now. Won’t look anything like early breakouts in the US and other countries that refused to shut down
whetstone@organizingpower my understanding is that the chinese vaccines are far less effective
@whetstone @organizingpower
And for seemingly (almost certainly) political reasons, China refuses to utilize western vaccines
And for seemingly (almost certainly) political reasons, China refuses to utilize western vaccines
@Randall @organizingpower it’s really disturbing how Chinese leadership has decided that politics is more important than their peoples’ lives
@Randall @whetstone lmao at the idea that China—which has been lambasted by US corporate media for the past 2 years for doing universal testing and shutdowns—is putting “politics above people’s lives”
@whetstone @Randall Fauci went on national TV in May 2020 and said there was no reason for people to wear masks, and you have the gall to accuse the Chinese govt of not caring about lives? Get fucked buddy
Adam Gurri
@organizingpower @whetstone @Randall I’m sure they jailed people for trying to draw attention to the original outbreak for humanitarian reasons
@whetstone @Randall @adamgurri the US has over 1,100,000 deaths under Fauci’s watch, while China has under 5,000–despite having 4x the population. Are you dense?
@adamgurri @Randall @whetstone also lol at “jailing people”—as if the US isn’t the prison capital of the world
@organizingpower @Randall @whetstone Does American mass incarceration make it a good idea, or a not-politically-motivated one, to jail people for pointing out there's an outbreak of a new disease?
@adamgurri @Randall @whetstone I love the underlying premise of your question—that America’s mass incarceration isn’t politically motivated. I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m not going to defend everything China does. But the US are the real baddies in the world, not China.
@organizingpower @Randall @whetstone that’s not the premise of anything I’ve said :) anyway, the Uyghurs thank you for your zealous defense of the Chinese dictatorship
@Randall @whetstone @adamgurri the thousands of children locked in cages and separated from their families thank you for zealous defense of the American regime
@organizingpower @Randall @whetstone I know that your only move is to deflect any criticism of China by criticizing America, but if you had read any of the words I actually said, you'd note I never actually tried to defend America at any point. I simply asked you to take ownership of your defense of China. Recall you thought the idea that they made COVID decisions politically to be absurd. Do you still defend that position?
@whetstone @adamgurri @Randall yes, it’s totally absurd to suggest that China has been politically motivated in “Covid decisions,” at least compared to every other country on earth. There are plenty of valid criticisms of China, but (unlike the US) they have moved heaven and earth to protect their people from Covid and they should be applauded for that.
@adamgurri @Randall @whetstone every decision a government makes is inherently a “politically motivated” one. The US’s political motivations largely aligned with giant corporations, while China’s largely aligned with human beings staying alive. But please, tell me why I’m wrong
@organizingpower @Randall @whetstone you’re wrong because they haven’t allowed more effective vaccines and they haven’t even done much to vaccinate with the crappy one they have. Hope this helps.
@whetstone @adamgurri @Randall ohhh is the US allowing Chinese vaccines? Can I go to CVS or Walgreens and get a Sinopharm vaccine??
@organizingpower @whetstone @adamgurri
One is not like the other
One is more effective against omicron
If they were moving heaven and earth, they'd approve of western vaccines
But, they haven't, and likely won't for the foreseeable future, because, politically, they believe the risks of higher death counts don't outweigh using less effective, but homegrown vaccines
If everything a country does is political, then so is that
@Randall @whetstone @adamgurri I’m sorry I didn’t hear an answer for why, in a “free market” society, I should be prohibited from taking the Sinopharm vaccine. Wonder why I can’t. Must be a “political” decision to protect the profits of US pharmaceutical companies
@organizingpower @whetstone @Randall who cares? I thought you said China was aligned with keeping people alive. What does it matter if the US is stopping their vaccine? What does that have to do with China keeping human beings alive?
@whetstone @adamgurri @Randall China has their own vaccines and has vaccinated far more of their people (90%) than the US (70%) https://apnews.com/article/health-china-beijing-covid-0ad4ad8851cb1cea47a67abd16024c15
China races to vaccinate elderly, but many are reluctant
BEIJING (AP) — Chinese authorities are going door to door and paying people older than 60 to get vaccinated against COVID-19. But even as cases surge , 64-year-old Li Liansheng said his friends are alarmed by stories of fevers, blood clots and other side effects.
@organizingpower interestingly one can critique specific policies without implying blanket condemnation or superiority. china’s decision specifically with regard to which vaccines it makes available to its population is bad for the reason i stated. i have made no claims about any other chinese policy or any comparisons to any other country.
@whetstone you said, “Chinese leadership has decided that politics is more important than their peoples’ lives,” which isn’t a critique about a specific policy, but a blanket statement of condemnation. And one that implies that China cares less about lives than other countries, which is demonstrably false on every objective measure
@whetstone there are plenty of valid critiques about the Chinese government, but if you think that China has spent the past 3 years doing anything other than desperately trying to keep its people alive, you have porridge for brains
@organizingpower please reread the comment i replied to. context is important to understanding anything people say, particularly strangers, and most particularly in text form.
@organizingpower I think it probably will look fairly similar unfortunately, because they didn't prioritize triple vaxxing the most vulnerable population (old people)
@ryanlcooper similar to 2020, when no one in the US was vaxxed at all? And before they knew which treatments worked and which didn’t??
Mark@ryanlcooper of
All right, I hate to ask a stupid question like this, but when did we forget that China was a totalitarian dictatorship? Was it the Bush administration when they saw all the profit potential?
All right, I hate to ask a stupid question like this, but when did we forget that China was a totalitarian dictatorship? Was it the Bush administration when they saw all the profit potential?