Terence Eden

🆕 blog! “So, this is Christmas?”

The Church of England publishes statistics about the numbers of its faithful. These are particularly interesting in light of the recent news that the UK no-longer has a Christian majority. The CofE's statistics are for 2019 - before COVID messed up everything - and I think offer a fascinating glimpse into its future. The two […]

👀 Read more: https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2022/12/so-this-is-christmas/
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#religion #xmas

So, this is Christmas?

The Church of England publishes statistics about the numbers of its faithful. These are particularly interesting in light of the recent news that the UK no-longer has a Christian majority. The CofE's statistics are for 2019 - before COVID messed up everything - and I think offer a fascinating glimpse into its future. The two figures which struck me were: 89,000 baptisms during 2019 114,000 funerals during 2019 Back in 2014, the numbers were: 130,000 baptisms 146,000 funerals The good…

Terence Eden’s Blog
Dec 25, 2022 at 12:35pmShare on Mastodon
Show threadTerence EdenNov 29, 2023

The Church of England have released another set of statistics.

https://www.churchofengland.org/about/data-services/key-areas-research#church-attendance-statistics

Key figures:
👶 Baptisms: 81,800
⚰️ Funerals: 103,500
⛪ Worshipping Community: 984,400

Baptisms were slightly higher than projected due to older children being held over during lockdown.

But that's still a "deficit" of 21k worshippers every year.

However, the "Worshipping Community" has declined by 128k in 3 years. An average of 42k per year.

Key areas of research | The Church of England

Key areas of the work of the Data Services unit

The Church of England
Show threadTerence EdenNov 29, 2023

Obviously there's probably a lower limit on Church of England membership.

But if the trends of the last few decades continue, it simply won't exist in the next 20-40 years.

Show thread-dsr- (not a dog)Nov 29, 2023

@Edent

It's rare for a religion to actually die out; it just becomes increasingly niche.

In 40 years CoE will just be whatever is practiced by the royal family and their hangers-on and supported employees, I suppose.

Show threadPusher Of Pixels (old account)Nov 29, 2023
@dashdsrdash @Edent an interesting tipping point is property/real estate upkeep. At some point well before actual irrelevance, it would seem to start failing to be able to maintain its assets.
Show threadAndy WoottonNov 29, 2023
@Edent I don't think God will mind.
Show threadAndy WoottonNov 29, 2023
@Edent Church architecture is an important artifact of historical British culture though. Protection will need to be paid for, with no congregations to collect for new rooves.
Show threadAlaric Snell-PymNov 30, 2023
@woo @Edent they have some lovely buildings. I'm an ideal world they would become community centres with social / performance spaces and libraries, but I very much doubt that will happen in anything like the current political climate.
Show threadTerence EdenNov 30, 2023
@kitten_tech @woo
I didn't often say this - but get off the Internet and engage with what's actually happening. Nearly every church is available to hire for performances, meetings, community clubs, yoga, etc.
Show threadAlaric Snell-PymNov 30, 2023
@Edent @woo eh? I was replying to a toot saying the buildings should be preserved if the CoE collapses, by suggesting a role they could fulfill, but bemoaning the worry that nobody would pay for that to happen. Not commenting on their CURRENT use! I live opposite a church so see its day to day usage :-)
Show threadAndy WoottonNov 30, 2023
@kitten_tech @Edent I agree. My kids were tricked into attending the local happy-clappy CofE school by a drama group. That's in a modern building next to The Community Centre, so one could be closed to reduce costs. The other 2 (C of E and Methodist) are Victorian and freezing. There's another Methodist chapel I've never seen open.
Show threadAndy WoottonNov 30, 2023
@Edent @kitten_tech You live in a city, don't you? :-)
Show threadAlex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UKNov 29, 2023

@Edent the CofE remains popular with older generations in my area, but younger Christians tend to gravitate towards newer Protestant denominations (thankfully most of which are very progressive) and there's an fairly large Catholic population, bolstered by migrant communities from SE and South Asia and Central Europe.

I know a fair few Christians in my local community but comparatively few Anglicans (other than service users at my work who are generally aged 75-100+)

Show threadGuyNov 29, 2023
@Edent I think it's going to be congregation by congregation - there are relatively vibrant congregations which actually have children in, and ones almost entirely comprised of pensioners. Obviously all else being equal the ones with kids are likely to last longer.
Show threadGuyNov 29, 2023
@Edent with respect to which congratulations, it's not the simple evangelical Vs other division we're often sold - the evangelicals are losing bums in pews too!
Show threadHughNov 29, 2023
@Edent I wonder what proportion of the funerals would have, in the previous year, been classified as “worshipping community”. I suspect that a proportion of funerals are for people who were not churchgoers themselves
Show threadHughNov 29, 2023
@Edent the pure speculation, of course, and not backed up by any data
Show threadPaul LeaderNov 29, 2023
@Edent and yet they still control a huge number of schools in the UK. It’s so frustrating.
Show threadSteveNov 29, 2023

@Edent

Amused me that this appeared just above your toot. The CoE still wields a lot of power, but their base must be pretty small now. A little like the Tories.

https://mastodon.org.uk/@newsthump@mastodon.online/111493268911901905

NewsThump (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image ‘I don’t care what the census said, this is a Christian country’ insists man who never sets foot inside a church https://newsthump.com/2023/11/29/i-dont-care-what-the-census-said-this-is-a-christian-country-insists-man-who-never-sets-foot-inside-a-church/

Mastodon
Show threadStefan CzerniawskiNov 29, 2023

@Edent You can't subtract baptisms from funerals to get a deficit, because neither number directly relates to regular worshippers or to people who in any active sense think of themselves as church members. So it isn't an inflow->stock->outflow model.

Which doesn't change your wider point that the stock is ageing and shrinking.

Show threadTerence EdenNov 29, 2023
@Pubstrat
I (lightly) disagree. But only because that's how that church seems to view it.
They don't seem to measure "leavers" other than by death.
And while they talk about outreach, they only measure confirmation/baptism as a "joiner".
I wish they published more about their leaky pipeline.
Show threadStefan CzerniawskiNov 29, 2023
@Edent It is going to be generally true that active church members who die have church funerals. But it is certainly not true that people who have church funerals were all previously active church members. And in CoE particularly, confirmation is likely to be a far stronger marker of actual commitment than baptism - but even then it is far from true that everybody confirmed but not yet dead is active in the church or even still has any religious beliefs at all.
Show threadAlisonW ♿🏳️‍🌈♾️Dec 25, 2022
@Edent 1960 wasn't what you'd call 'high' though either.
Show threadMoqumeDec 25, 2022
@Edent attendance in church, and being a Christian aren't the same thing though. I haven't attended church in.. 35 years? But I still consider myself a Christian. I just don't like being in church, seeing the hypocrisy of people sin for 6 days, and on the 7th day ask for forgiveness and all is well. Love thy neighbour 24/7 - it doesn't require a church for that.
Show threadMatthew MalthouseDec 25, 2022

@Edent I'm convinced that for a very long time the 'majority' has been made up of those who ticked the census box out of habit and custom.

The CoE has not had a majority, or even a dominant plurality, in actual religious observance for some time.

Show threadSam Sneddon 🏳️‍⚧️Dec 25, 2022
@Edent honestly what surprises me most there is is how Christmas attendance has fallen below Easter attendance
Show threadEd DaviesDec 25, 2022
@Edent Old blog. New blog post.
Show threadTerence EdenDec 25, 2022
@edavies I don't understand?
Show threadEd DaviesDec 25, 2022
@Edent Just being picky about the mildly irritating habit going around of referring to blog posts as blogs.
Show threadTerence EdenDec 25, 2022
@edavies no, I get that. I meant I don't understand why you were telling me.
Show threadStephen CraggDec 25, 2022
@Edent On the positive side, many former churches have been converted into all sorts of cool uses. I've been indoor [rock] climbing, clubbinng, and been to art exhibitions in them.
They often (not always) occupy sites of excellent accessibility having been the hubs for their community.
Despite being an atheist for over 40 years, I still love a good church and graveyard. I don't want to see these fabulous locations (and architecture) lost to soulless* development.
*oh the irony.
Show threadAndy DaviesDec 25, 2023
@Edent Disestablish the Chuches of England, Scotland and Wales that’s what now IMV