Robert ReichDec 21, 2022

A large and growing sector of the U.S. economy produces nothing of value.

Derivatives, private equity, hedge funds.

Every winner comes at the expense of a current or future loser.

The only things this โ€œzero-sumโ€ sector produces is more money for the wealthy.

Show thread๐ฟ๐’ถ๐“ƒ๐’ถ  Dec 21, 2022

@rbreich

"Produces nothing of value"

This is a dangerous, and quite malicious way to frame the problem. By some definitions, poets, musicians, authors, painters, dancers, and artists of all varieties "produce nothing of value". The problem isn't the lack of "value" in what they do.

The problem is that the economic system we have built values their mere existence within it. Any profits made from it are then privatized, while any losses from it are socialized.

Show threadSusan is Surfeited on PoliticsDec 21, 2022
@LadyDragonfly @rbreich โ€œMaliciousโ€? No. Art is, by definition, something that enriches culture. Management consulting, by contrast, just enriches the bank accounts of the rich. You seem to be going out of your way to misunderstand his point.
Show thread๐ฟ๐’ถ๐“ƒ๐’ถ  

@suavebones @rbreich please place an exact monetary value on "enrichment".

You can't.

That's the point.

Dec 21, 2022 at 11:16pmWeb
Show threadSusan is Surfeited on PoliticsDec 22, 2022
@LadyDragonfly @rbreich Iโ€™m afraid your point is lost on me. Art is considered valuable to culture at every dollar level. Big law is valuable to nobody under an eight-digit income. Not sure what youโ€™re arguing with.
Show thread๐ฟ๐’ถ๐“ƒ๐’ถ  Dec 22, 2022

@suavebones @rbreich

"Art is considered valuable on every dollar level"

Ok. I'll accept that if you can provide evidence to support it. Name a dollar amount for art. Any amount will be fine.

Show threadSusan is Surfeited on PoliticsDec 22, 2022
@LadyDragonfly @rbreich, I do not understand your point. I am expressly saying that art is inherently valuable, whether or not it is or can monetized.
Show thread๐ฟ๐’ถ๐“ƒ๐’ถ  Dec 22, 2022
@suavebones @rbreich and I am not arguing whether or not it has other kinds of value (sentimental, religious, cultural, etc). Only whether or not it has inherent monetary value. This is the point you have been studiously ignoring.
Show threadSusan is Surfeited on PoliticsDec 22, 2022
@LadyDragonfly @rbreich, what you are studiously ignoring is that Reich was speaking about the commercial world that provides hard cash for our food, shelter and acquisitions. Art can and often is part of that world, but need not be and frequently isnโ€™t. It is you who are trying to squeeze all art into the commercial context so that you can be offended because people value art differently from, say, Cheerios.
Show thread๐ฟ๐’ถ๐“ƒ๐’ถ  Dec 22, 2022

@suavebones @rbreich

Wow, it's amazing how you can just lie about what I said like that. Have a nice day.

Show threadSusan is Surfeited on PoliticsDec 22, 2022
@LadyDragonfly @rbreich i do not lie. I have told you consistently that I do not understand your point. Rather than explain yourself, you keep demanding answers from me. I am equally done with you, and hope your holiday season and mood are considerably better than this exchange has been.
Show thread๐ฟ๐’ถ๐“ƒ๐’ถ  Dec 22, 2022
@suavebones @rbreich the internet debate over whether I said the thing I just said 20 seconds ago, or whether, as you claim, I said the exact opposite, is not a debate that interests me, or that I'm particularly invested in. Reading is fundamental.