loriDec 8, 2022

A while back I saw an r/woodworking post where someone was asking for resources for woodworking plans. A few people told them to Google it.

If you Google it you get absolute horseshit. Just page after page of useless results. So we need to stop the fucking "let me google that for you" era and recognize that search is entirely broken in the modern day. We NEED human recommendations and information sharing now more than ever.

Show threadloriDec 8, 2022
(I posted about this on Twitter once but just the part about not telling people to Google things without explicitly adding the woodworking story and got ten thousand people yelling at me for "telling marginalized people that it's their job to educate ignorant people", which is part of the reason I am so glad to be free of Twitter because this was the least charitable reading of my point ever and way outside of the scope of what I was talking about)
Show threadLarry GarfieldDec 10, 2022

@lori I am entirely unsurprised by that response, frankly. Twitter is a cesspool in the left as much as in the right.

And yeah, a friendly, contextually-informed human has always been the best search engine. True 1000 years ago true today.

Show threadloriDec 10, 2022

@Crell at least in the past search engines would often send you to the websites of fully informed humans and you could read them and learn things

That hasn't been true for a while now though

Show threadFlaming JuneDec 10, 2022

@lori @Crell You can still find really good stuff via Google, but you have to work at it: ignore the first five or so pages of sponsored shit, rephrase and redefine your search etc.

As you say, you can’t *just* google it anymore.

Show threadrobinDec 10, 2022
@juneussell
I can't even find shit through Google nowadays when I know exactly the page I'm looking for. It's just page after page of commercialised SEO-hackers. I don't know how you're finding anything useful.
@lori @Crell
Show threadFlaming June
@Crell @lori @nottrobin Well, it is a bit like looking for pearls in shit, and it does often start with a suggestion from a friend on social media. People do still create good stuff; it’s out there.
Dec 10, 2022 at 11:16pmWeb
Show threadrobinDec 10, 2022

@juneussell
Yeah exactly, it's out there and Google is terrible at finding it.

Of course, there's nothing better. Google is the best. That's what happens when you allow monopoly control for decades.
@Crell @lori

Show threadFlaming JuneDec 10, 2022
@Crell @nottrobin @lori Indeed. Still, I’m old. Old enough to remember when there were only encyclopaedias.
Show threadrobinDec 10, 2022

@juneussell
I don't know how our ages compare, but I remember when Google could actually find interesting shit, back when they were actually interested in the problem.

The web was such a glistening, exciting place. How can it be that as more of the diversity of humankind has found its way online, the web according to Google has got so much more boring?
@Crell @lori

Show threadFlaming JuneDec 10, 2022

@lori @nottrobin @Crell I’m 70. When I was a kid, finding info was really hard, not because there was too much rubbish to sift through, but because there was nothing!

I totally agree that info is now treated as a commodity and that’s a new challenge. But I’d still rather be here than there.

Show threadrobinDec 10, 2022
@juneussell
Heh yeah I'm certainly not arguing for the destruction of the internet. Just that it's potential has been squandered by the capitalists.
@lori @Crell
Show threadFlaming JuneDec 10, 2022
@lori @nottrobin @Crell Oh sure. But easier to work with something that’s there than something that isn’t lol
Show threaddatenwolfJan 2, 2023

@nottrobin @juneussell @Crell @lori

A big part of the reason is, that some 20 years ago it was mostly tech enthusiasts who went online. And of those only the really dedicated ones would go through all the motions that were necessary if you wanted to leave your very own mark on the Internet.

It was only with the rise of "canned", low effort sites like Facebook, that people not so much into tech could be present on the net.

Show threadSisAveDec 11, 2022
@lori @juneussell @nottrobin @Crell I remember riding my bike to the library, using an actual card catalog to find books I needed to gather information to do reports for school.
Show threadLarry GarfieldDec 11, 2022
@SisAve @lori @juneussell @nottrobin I was a munchkin when my library switched from card catalogs to ancient PC green screen computers. I have vague memories of the transition.
Show threadFlaming JuneDec 11, 2022
@Crell @nottrobin @lori @SisAve Lol yeah. Happy days!
Show threadFlaming JuneDec 11, 2022
@nottrobin @Crell @SisAve @lori Seriously though. Gathering information has always had its challenges. Our big one nowadays is companies trying to sell us their version. Or at least, having more options for doing so; they’ve always tried.
Show threadFlaming JuneDec 11, 2022
@Crell @SisAve @lori @nottrobin It’s a follow the money thing - as always. Libraries are paid for from the public purse, so not much opportunity there - apart from a plaque with the name of the politician who opened it. Encyclopaedia sales were big business though, and remember how much computers and peripherals used to cost? And then videos - a real luxury item! The internet gave us all the things we used to pay to own apparently for free…
Show threadFlaming JuneDec 11, 2022
@Crell @lori @SisAve @nottrobin But nothing costs nothing. And we pay through the nose in the form of aggressive advertising. We fight it with ad blocks and junk filters, and they fight back with sponsored content and embedding. Of course there are places, like this, where you can escape, but they are still to pay for, through donations and volunteer time. Fragile stuff compared to commercial advertising.
Show threadGenevieve WilliamsDec 11, 2022
@SisAve @lori @juneussell @nottrobin @Crell I mean, a person can still do those things. (Except the card catalog, we pretty much stopped using those twenty years ago.) And for a lot of stuff you don't even need to go to the library building cause it's online.
Show threadFlaming JuneDec 11, 2022
@Crell @lori @nottrobin @welltemperedwriter @SisAve Libraries are still worth the visit though. Quite apart from discontinued gems unavailable elsewhere, look at the buildings! This is Liverpool
Show threadFlaming JuneDec 11, 2022
@welltemperedwriter @nottrobin @SisAve @Crell @lori All information hubs, IRL or online, are wonderful.
Show threadpenguin42Jan 1, 2023
@juneussell @Crell @lori @nottrobin @welltemperedwriter @SisAve The liverpool one is really nice - with that central modern bit connected to the old reading rooms around the side that have some lovely historical bits in. And a nice view from the roof as well.
Show threadLarry GarfieldDec 10, 2022
@nottrobin @juneussell @lori I've been using Duck Duck Go as my search engine for a few years now. Fewer ads, better privacy.
Show threadFlaming JuneDec 11, 2022
@nottrobin @lori @Crell Yeah, I get that. But I *really* can’t find anything on there.
Show threadrobinDec 11, 2022
@juneussell
Yeah I've also tried to switch to DDG a few times, but it never sticks. Unfortunately it is just noticeably worse, and I can't afford for it to be even harder to find stuff.
@lori @Crell
Show threadFlaming JuneDec 11, 2022
@nottrobin @lori @Crell I know. I’d like to like it…
Show threadLynn_from_OKJan 3, 2023
@nottrobin @juneussell @Crell @lori DuckDuckGo is better. Not always a lot better at actually finding stuff but it's at least as good and it doesn't track you.