YuDec 4, 2022
Björn Rust

Timnit Gebru (@timnitGebru) adds another nail in the coffin of effective altruism (EA) with her piece for WIRED: https://www.wired.com/story/effective-altruism-artificial-intelligence-sam-bankman-fried/

For me, this follows »The good delusion: has effective altruism broken bad?« by Linda Kinstler: https://www.economist.com/1843/2022/11/15/the-good-delusion-has-effective-altruism-broken-bad

And »Against longtermism« by Émile P Torres: https://aeon.co/essays/why-longtermism-is-the-worlds-most-dangerous-secular-credo

Effective Altruism Is Pushing a Dangerous Brand of ‘AI Safety’

This philosophy—supported by tech figures like Sam Bankman-Fried—fuels the AI research agenda, creating a harmful system in the name of saving humanity

WIRED
Nov 30, 2022 at 8:28pmWeb
Show threadGemma CopelandNov 30, 2022
@bjornrust Do you listen to Tech Won't Save Us? They've taken down EA in a few episodes… I think the only thing Paris Marx hates more than EA is Elon M*sk 😂
Show threadBjörn RustNov 30, 2022
@gem No, seems I should.
Show threadrobinNov 30, 2022

@bjornrust

Structurally I suppose anyone who thinks they can predict the future with any certainty (which is of course always wrong) is going to end up doing harm, because they will *always* try to convince people that some imagined future goal is more important than real world problems right in front of us.

@timnitGebru

Show threadTobias FiebigNov 30, 2022
@bjornrust @timnitGebru The coffin of EA, illustrative image:
Show threadRamsey HaddadNov 30, 2022
@bjornrust @timnitGebru
While I accept that EA is probably harmful without having studied it and I accept that LLMs present risks, the article didn't convince me of the connection.
It doesn't demonstrate or even directly claim that LLMs wouldn't be funded in the absence of EA.
Show threadmooopingDec 1, 2022
@bjornrust @timnitGebru Do you understand Longtermism as always being a “tech will save us” story? On the face of it thinking about the long term doesn’t sound unreasonable. Similarly, making Altruism more effective is difficult to criticise and in fact banal if it doesn’t lead to such weird misallocations of resources that you point out in your article.
Show threadBjörn RustDec 3, 2022
@moooping @timnitGebru I agree that we ought to consider long-term solutions. However, those who follow the Longtermism doctrine seem to take a rather deterministic view that often appears dangerously techno-optimistic. I am presently re-evaluating my feelings toward Longtermism and effective altruism (EA) as someone who identifies with Peter Singer's philosophy.
Show threadD. CreemerDec 1, 2022
@bjornrust @timnitGebru thank you - three great articles
Show threadMarie AnastacioDec 2, 2022
@bjornrust @timnitGebru I'm very confused. It all feels like novlang to me. Isn't AI safety about looking at bias and privacy issues, explainable AI and interpretability? I never heard about effective altruism before and I'm not sure I get what it is. But why solve hypothetical future problems if we don't solve current ones.
Show threadBjörn RustDec 3, 2022

@miaanastacio @timnitGebru AI is Timnit's domain, but to understand effective altruism (EA), I recommend starting with Peter Singer's »The why and how of effective altruism«: https://www.ted.com/talks/peter_singer_the_why_and_how_of_effective_altruism

However, please beware that he opens this presentation with some potentially disturbing imagery, and the examples he provides should be scrutinised today.

For a more comprehensive understanding, you might like to investigate his book »The Life You Can Save«, available here: https://www.thelifeyoucansave.org/the-book/

Peter Singer: The why and how of effective altruism

TED
Show threadBjörn RustDec 3, 2022
@miaanastacio @timnitGebru I should also add that solving hypothetical future problems is a characteristic that might be attributed to Longtermism, which is a cause area of EA, but not necessarily a characteristic of EA as a whole.
Show threadTimnit Gebru (she/her).Dec 3, 2022
@bjornrust @miaanastacio Peter Singer is the "father" of effective altruism & also advocates for infanticide of disabled people. To really understand EA, you don't go to the privileged white men who created it while talking about "saving" the rest of us, you go to the groups who've been negatively impacted by what they've been doing, like the women who've experienced sexual assault & have discussed the disturbing predatory behaviors of the cult, among many other issues we haven't even scratched.
Show threadAvi Bar-ZeevDec 3, 2022

@timnitGebru @bjornrust @miaanastacio

If EA was more honest and wanted to be truly effective, it would advocate for finding all sociopaths (who, let’s be honest, cause the vast majority of harm to present and future generations) and either provably rehabilitate or isolate them from the rest of society.

This would effectively end the EA movement after one cycle.

Show threadTom Bellin Dec 3, 2022
@avibarzeev @timnitGebru @bjornrust @miaanastacio how can we be certain that EA isn't a honeypot to trick sociopaths into self identifying.
Show threadMichael GemarDec 3, 2022
@tob @avibarzeev @timnitGebru @bjornrust @miaanastacio If only that were true.
Show threadCassandrichDec 3, 2022
@avibarzeev @timnitGebru @bjornrust @miaanastacio This. 👆 No lies detected.
Show threadMike Taylor 🦕Dec 3, 2022
@avibarzeev @timnitGebru @bjornrust @miaanastacio Well, that is a lovely idea. I don't have the first idea how it could be implemented, though.
Show threadAlice TawhaiDec 4, 2022
@miaanastacio @avibarzeev @bjornrust @timnitGebru sociopaths are too good at masking. Also I think of the film Minority Report
Show threadStatmonkey 🙊Dec 4, 2022
@timnitGebru @bjornrust @miaanastacio Effective altruism is one of the most vile depraved warped concepts I have ever had the displeasure of discovering. I hope it heads off into the historical past like Eugenics and Craniology. While I am at it I hope it takes a few of these elitist pissant oligarchs with it.
Show threadpatrickdanielsDec 7, 2022
@statmonkey @timnitGebru@dair- Well stated!community.social @bjornrust @miaanastacio
Show threadMarie AnastacioDec 3, 2022
@bjornrust @timnitGebru thank you for the refs. It all sounds great when they talk about it. But I hear the point that they are not the ones we should ask about how good their impact is on the world. I'll dig up a bit more, I guess I learned something new today.
Show threadmindstalkDec 3, 2022
@miaanastacio @bjornrust @timnitGebru
Originally, at least, EA was the ideas that you should give where it does the most good -- like giving to the poor via efficient charities, rather than to your church or college -- and that many people (like techies) would do more good earning a lot of money and giving it away than by trying to act as non-profit volunteers themselves. Half a Google salary can support several volunteers or help very many of the global poor.
Show threadHiFiDec 8, 2022
@miaanastacio @bjornrust @timnitGebru because they’re sociopaths that want justification for the pain suffering and death they cause now in service to the future
Show threadSherrilyn IfillDec 4, 2022
@bjornrust @timnitGebru Timnit’s piece in Wired is superb. I don’t know how much louder she can ring the alarm bell. And whether we are at all equipped to marshal an effective fight.
Show threadtobieDec 4, 2022
@bjornrust Until a few days ago, I never heard of effective altruism. I'm grateful to you for these thoughtful links on the ideology adopted by the would-be 'masters of the world.'
Show threadlauren brownDec 4, 2022
@bjornrust *a*ffective altruism, amirite?
Show threadTommy HardenDec 4, 2022
@bjornrust @timnitGebru
Show threadTim PalmerDec 4, 2022
@bjornrust @timnitGebru Thank you for Èmile Torres’ piece. One of the best on Longtermism I’ve seen, and neatly lays out how the biggest Existential Threat is Longtermism itself! Lovely :)
Show threadBjörn RustDec 5, 2022
@timpalmer @timnitGebru I agree, and I regret not linking to their Mastodon account in the original post: @xriskology
Show threadvirkonDec 4, 2022
@bjornrust @timnitGebru This theory or philosophy or however you want to call this, is the dumbest and cruelest thing I have heard of in a long time. 🤦‍♀️