Jelani Cobb
Old Dog New Tricks@Jelaniya no surprise. Why do so many people think amassing large sums of wealth makes someone intelligent? I’ve met a number of these folks and my experience is most are bat shit crazy narcissists.
Fallon Stone@thom @Jelaniya I agree.. but I have to say.. we were taught in school that only intelligent people become rich. Whether it's "you need a college degree to make a lot of money and you have to be smart to get into a good college" or "here's a parade of wealthy men throughout history and because our system only rewards the good, smart people, they are all smart"
Patricklee@FallonStone @thom @Jelaniya life has taught me that only those who are willing to exploit become insanely rich.
@patricklee @thom @Jelaniya sounds right to me. Author Jon Ronson wrote a book examining psychopathy and found that capitalism rewards psychopathy. Psychopaths have some basic traits -- lack of empathy, difficulty distinguishing right and wrong, tendencies to lie or manipulate, a disregard for the rights of others -- all traits that benefit capitalistic pursuits towards extreme wealth. It is not just wrong to assume the rich are brilliant, it's dangerous.
@FallonStone @thom @Jelaniya there are several different kinds of intelligences as well. Being highly intelligent in manipulation doesn't make one highly intelligent in rocket science for instance.
@patricklee @thom @Jelaniya I agree but I wonder if excelling at something is enough to constitute intelligence. Do we have a clear measure of intelligence? People like Musk and Edison can call themselves geniuses because there's no definitive way to challenge that.
@FallonStone @patricklee @Jelaniya so true. Many different definitions of intelligence and an equally large number of ways to “measure” intelligence. Some times we have to take what we see and make a call. A smart grifter doesn’t make them someone we should listen to when it comes to policy decisions, especially when it comes to moving a populace.
Laces@FallonStone @patricklee @thom @Jelaniya One of the biggest problems we have is, it's capitalism while they are making money but socialism once they fail. Of course they can take the risks if they never have to accept the consequences.
IAROSLAV VOITOVYCH@FallonStone @patricklee @thom @Jelaniya
No other well competing system has been invented yet. Saying "Capitalism is wrong!" is just like saying "Life on Earth is wrong!".
No other well competing system has been invented yet. Saying "Capitalism is wrong!" is just like saying "Life on Earth is wrong!".
@iarov @patricklee @thom @Jelaniya there are, apparently, better ways to do capitalism and whether other systems are better is a matter of opinion. Lots of people throughout history seemed to think, for example, that socialism is better. I don't have an opinion yet, but to say one can't criticize what exists without something better already existing, negates the process undergone to develop something better.
@FallonStone @iarov @thom @Jelaniya 100% of any economic system will always fail. Capitalism works wonderfully when it is well regulated against abuse by a minority. Same with socialism. I fail to see any real benefits for fascism or it’s sibling systems though.
@patricklee @FallonStone @thom @Jelaniya
If capitalism is being abused by a minority, then it is not capitalism but a cleptocracy or oligarchy - exactly what we see in autocracies around. The only cure for this threat is a well-developed democracy, which protects the system from monopolization by a minority.
If capitalism is being abused by a minority, then it is not capitalism but a cleptocracy or oligarchy - exactly what we see in autocracies around. The only cure for this threat is a well-developed democracy, which protects the system from monopolization by a minority.
@FallonStone @patricklee @thom @Jelaniya This is a clear mistake to divide good and evil by the socialism vs capitalism line, because socialism is in fact a fictitious system which failed every attempt of building, and this is a fact, not an opinion.
@FallonStone @patricklee @thom @Jelaniya
The root of it all is the random outcome of any business created, so the investment should go random as well - any attempt to put investment under control is a failure, thus you need capitalists who can randomly invest, and thus capitalism is the only system that can survive and compete.
You could invent a zillion variations of capitalism, but there is no alternative to its core.
The root of it all is the random outcome of any business created, so the investment should go random as well - any attempt to put investment under control is a failure, thus you need capitalists who can randomly invest, and thus capitalism is the only system that can survive and compete.
You could invent a zillion variations of capitalism, but there is no alternative to its core.
Angry Centrist@FallonStone @thom @Jelaniya
smart != Good.
Smart != Just.
The Robber Barons were smart, but most were ruthless and greedy and rapacious and unrepentant.
smart != Good.
Smart != Just.
The Robber Barons were smart, but most were ruthless and greedy and rapacious and unrepentant.
@dkbgeek @FallonStone @Jelaniya agreed and my point exactly. There are many forms of intelligence and I definitely recognize many different types of genius. My point is many people are choosing to follow the narcissistic money maker as though that alone makes them smart enough to follow.
Elon and Kanye are geniuses.
Elon and Kanye are geniuses in narcissism.@FallonStone @thom @Jelaniya I don't know if there's been any work on identifying cause vs effect, but studies have shown that on average people who are more wealthy are less empathetic. If that scales up even linearly, Musk is less surprising (but no less disgusting)
@dkbgeek @thom @Jelaniya what you're referring to is mentioned in Jon Ronson's book on psychopathy. According to Ronson, capitalism rewards the fundamental traits of psychopathy... Chief among them, as you pointed out, is a lack of empathy. In this way, the system rewards the unempathetic, the narcissistic, and the domineering with lots of money and power.
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