Mx. Zoz
TiiaAurora 🌚I assume disability-awareness topics would count as political and need to be hidden soon 😣
That's kind of painful :|
Daniël Franke 🏳️🌈@TiiaAurora Wait, is that a new policy on chaos.social?
@ainmosni Yea political topics that are sent to the local timeline need to be hidden behind CW.
And I am just thinking through how much it would affect me. But then pretty much all activism work is political.
And I am just thinking through how much it would affect me. But then pretty much all activism work is political.
@TiiaAurora Honestly, I can't really put into words how such a blanket statement is just, to put it very kindly, naive.
Without clarification, it reads like "everything the admins don't like".
Of course, I'm preaching to the choir, but I'm just very disappointed in it, so it started a rant.
Die immer Lachende@ainmosni @TiiaAurora this rule is for the local Timeline so if you put your posts unlistet you don't have CW something.
Also this isn't about 'things the admins dint want to see' it's about exhausted people who sometimes just don't want so get run over by some kind of topics.
Maybe this will help you to understand the intentions
https://chaos.social/@ordnung/109431693107121232
Also this isn't about 'things the admins dint want to see' it's about exhausted people who sometimes just don't want so get run over by some kind of topics.
Maybe this will help you to understand the intentions
https://chaos.social/@ordnung/109431693107121232
@Ich_halt_ @ainmosni
I understand the intentions. But activism work for nobody to see or just the people who know me anyway is not activism work.
I try to avoid posting anything online that could be triggering for people. But this is one thing that's important to me.
I understand the intentions. But activism work for nobody to see or just the people who know me anyway is not activism work.
I try to avoid posting anything online that could be triggering for people. But this is one thing that's important to me.
@TiiaAurora @ainmosni if your post isn't listed, they just don't appear in your local Timeline. Everyone who follows you could share your post. It's not like it doesn't get seen. And if you post it with CW in your local Timeline everyone can choose to see it. As it was described by @ordnung it their post I shared it's not like every post with a small sense of political topics must be marked with CW
@Ich_halt_ @ainmosni @ordnung
So at best it's a big vague "it depends". Still leaving stomach ache behind.
So at best it's a big vague "it depends". Still leaving stomach ache behind.
@TiiaAurora @ainmosni @ordnung if this moderation don't fit for you, it's totally okay to switch the instances (but one penny for your mind: in that case the local Timeline don't have the chance to read about the topic. Wouldn't it be more various if political accounts were represented in every instance?) and I don't want to force you to stay or to like this handling. I'm here to offer you another perspective to understand people who like this handling
@Ich_halt_ @ainmosni
I did take part in the long GitHub discussion about CW CN so this is not the first time I talked about this also within the community. Back then it was more of a general discussion. I sensed that there was a lack of understanding/awareness of the historical context of hiding away disability. I also talked to some disability organisations here to see if my bad gut feeling was appropriate or if I am overreacting and they were shocked.
I did take part in the long GitHub discussion about CW CN so this is not the first time I talked about this also within the community. Back then it was more of a general discussion. I sensed that there was a lack of understanding/awareness of the historical context of hiding away disability. I also talked to some disability organisations here to see if my bad gut feeling was appropriate or if I am overreacting and they were shocked.
So the problem is not chaos social. It's a symptom. The problem is the culture itself that is on here because I have seen the same discussions on other instances with the same reasoning. So me moving would be just a temporary fix to a different problem. Sure, I can leave. But how often do I need to leave?
I have seen that disabled people on other instances were asked to put it behind a CW when they talk about themselves or show images of themselves because it was "disturbing for some".
Do you protect the unknown "some" or do you hurt the individual?
@TiiaAurora @ainmosni I understand and totally agree with the problem to generally hide the life of disabled. I don't want do excuse this! In this case it's not meant to hide disabled people's life because their life is some kind of political. In my understanding its for political rants wich I think doesn't exclude or hide anyone. Rants can be realy overwhelming.
@Ich_halt_ @ainmosni Unfortunately this is an interpretation of the rules. So is mine btw as well since it only states "politics" and that is such a broad topic that it can include everything.
Might also that my autism brain is kicking in there since to me rules are absolute and if I can't follow them I leave.
Might also that my autism brain is kicking in there since to me rules are absolute and if I can't follow them I leave.
@TiiaAurora @ainmosni Ordnung just answered on many questions about the same topic. My interpretation is based on their answers. I realy agree on the issue of this vague rule but I'm pretty sure they work on some more explizit statement/rule
@Ich_halt_ @ainmosni Here you can see my initial post about it from 20 days ago. https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/20117#issuecomment-1310991101
@TiiaAurora @ainmosni I really understand that problem with the intention if hiding specific topics and stand behind everyone people try to hide. I think the intention and the result ist just a bit different in this case. But it's important to have your point in mind and try to define this rule in the right direction so nobody gets hidden and everyone can enjoy this instance
@Ich_halt_ @TiiaAurora While the intentions are fine, and now that I've read the blog post, I also just understand where this is coming from.
My main problem is that a general "hide politics" rule tends to disfavour marginalised groups, because their every day issues are quickly seen as political, and so a blanket statement like that could rapidly, and unknowingly, make the instance very unfriendly for the aforementioned groups.
@ainmosni @TiiaAurora I think it's not hidden. You can write a headline and people choose to read further. And again it's only a rule for the local Timeline on this instance. Most people are interested in political topics but sometimes it's just overwhelming. Instead of not reading this ever again (muting topics or people) everyone can choose to not see it at the moment.
@Ich_halt_ @TiiaAurora That is what's often said, but imagine being asked to hide who you are being a something called a warning just because who you are and your experiences are considered political.
I'm queer, do I need to put any non-sexual talk about that behind a CW because some people consider it political?
And if the answer to that is yes, can you see how I will feel less welcome?
@ainmosni @TiiaAurora i understand you view and I am totally on your side! You shouldn't hide mentioned topics or yourself. They only ask everyone to hide political rants in my understanding.
@Ich_halt_ @TiiaAurora Yes but by not defining what those are, it can mean anything.
Vague rules are never a good thing, because they are too easy to abuse, either on purpose, or by accident.
@ainmosni @TiiaAurora they try to clarify it vor everyone who ask them and i hope they will post a statement (I think they will do so, because many people are a bit unsure about this rule) I totally agree with the problem some vague statements can cause.
I've read some of their answers to similar questions, that's why I try to clarify it a bit bevor people think they have to leave because of an misunderstanding
I've read some of their answers to similar questions, that's why I try to clarify it a bit bevor people think they have to leave because of an misunderstanding
@Ich_halt_ @ainmosni So when you say its just the local timeline. other servers will be able to see my post when they are federated with chaos social. just the people here won't?
@TiiaAurora @ainmosni im not completely sure about the federated instances. But everyone who follows you can read and boost you and on this way everyone can see your post in their home Timeline. Just like it always was on twitter for example.
eveghost 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧@TiiaAurora The server I'm on has a policy of not forcing marginalized groups to use TW because it's 'political' because this has been abused to silence people. I'd like to see more servers adopt this stance.
@eveghost Maybe my instance makes a step towards it. It's sad because I like it here otherwise
@TiiaAurora I would raise the issue if you feel comfortable. I think more attention needs to be drawn to the potential misuse of TWs.
@eveghost tbf I have already participated in a long discussion about it and even then I didn't feel like the core problem was understood how dangerous it is to silent people who have been historically silenced.
One suggestion was to have a disability instance and hide it as a default so people don't have to see it.
One suggestion was to have a disability instance and hide it as a default so people don't have to see it.
@TiiaAurora You might try these two instances:
https://ableism.rip/about
https://disabled.social/about
There's also:
https://neurodifferent.me/about
Hope you find a home that treats disability activism fairly!
https://ableism.rip/about
https://disabled.social/about
There's also:
https://neurodifferent.me/about
Hope you find a home that treats disability activism fairly!
@eveghost I don't want to be on a disability only instance because they can be defederated and then cut off a lot of disabled voices at once. I think its dangerous.
@TiiaAurora That's a legitimate concern. I totally respect that.
Pixelherz_@TiiaAurora @eveghost that was exactly my thought when I firstly saw instances like this.