patak
For #Elk, we are thinking about using "Mutual" instead of the "Follows you" label over the cover image plus "Unfollow" button of the official Mastodon Web client. Does everyone understand "Mutual" as "We follow each other" or do you think this could confuse some users?
Nov 24, 2022 at 5:18pmWeb
Show threadZac Davis ⚡️Nov 24, 2022
@patak on #Upsapce we just label it “Friends”
Show threadpatakNov 24, 2022
@thatzacdavis interesting! Friends could be a bit too much for some people 🤔
It is true that Discord uses Friends too. I think mutual is more on point here though
Show threadZac Davis ⚡️Nov 24, 2022
@patak I think Instagram also uses it so that was the justification for us doing it in our app. I do find it a little confusing personally. It’s a touch UX situation trying to find a single word to describe that you follow each other.
Show threadwheatjsNov 24, 2022
@patak @thatzacdavis I like both "mutual" and "follows you", but "friends" does sound too personal
Show threadLindsay WardellNov 24, 2022
@patak I think it looks fine, mutual should be clear enough to folks who haven't seem the term yet.
Show threadAddy OsmaniNov 24, 2022
@patak Oh hai 😊 I like “Mutual” but think a broader global audience may understand “Follows you” a little more easily fwiw.
Show threadpatakNov 24, 2022
@addyosmani the thing is that "Follows you" requires we add another label to indicate if you also "Follow" or not the person. Maybe with a good tooltip, it may be enough. I really like the clean single label ☺️. It is also hard to parse right now in the Mastodon UI, you have an "Unfollow" positive button when you are following someone, and then a "Follows you" label which above some cover images is hard to spot.
Show threadAddy OsmaniNov 24, 2022
@patak That also makes sense. Given how adjusted users of birdapp were to changes over time, you could always ship “Mutuals” and refine if users don’t acclimate to it. I think both are good choices :)
Show threadpatakNov 24, 2022
@addyosmani ya, good point. So, the label should be "Mutuals" with an "s" at the end? My non-native English is playing games with me here, ha.
Show threadAddy OsmaniNov 24, 2022
@patak In American English, I’ve heard “Mutuals” used colloquially in this context :)
Show threadAndy BellNov 24, 2022
@addyosmani @patak yeh +1 to this. It’s a really great intention but I think the language maybe too niche
Show threadNicolas GrillyNov 24, 2022
@andy @addyosmani @patak Agreed.
Show threadAddy OsmaniNov 25, 2022
@andy @patak Very much looking forward to trying out Elk as it comes together. Of all the clients I've seen so far, it feels the closest to birdsite UX-wise (in a a good way, getting to use muscle memory and all that) :) Good luck with the road forward!
Show threadIan VSNov 24, 2022
@patak I think it's not clear what clicking "mutual" would do. Is it indicating the current state, or the action?
Show threadpatakNov 24, 2022
@IanVS it is a label with values "Mutual", "Following", "Follows you", and "Follow" (this last one we may need to review). Once you hover it duals as a button with "Unfollow" in red or "Follow"/"Follow back" if you aren't following the person.
Show threadrunimo 🧑‍💻Nov 24, 2022
@patak @IanVS How does it work on mobile?
I think most people will understand the term "mutuals", but it seems inconsistent to me if other states are expressed with "follow". Also if the button has two actions, follow and unfollow, these refer to my "follow" state in relation to that user, while "mutuals" mixes the user's follow state in relation to me with the "follow/unfollow" actions and ultimately my follow state, which it is not related to.
Show threadrunimo 🧑‍💻Nov 24, 2022
@patak @IanVS I'd suggest to either keep state and actions separate (e.g. a badge displaying the states "follows you", "following" and "follows you/following" or possibly "mutually following") or to keep the user's state separate from my state (e.g. by adding a badge for it), but mix my state with the actions (in the button label/state). Otherwise I think there's too much complexity. Reduce cognitive load, "don't make me think".
Show threadpatakNov 24, 2022
@runimo @IanVS your point for mobile is good. I think you are right, we may need separate label and button then 🤔
Show threadIdan GazitNov 24, 2022
@patak shutupandtakemymoney.meme
Show threadpatakNov 24, 2022
@idan we were talking today with @sxzz that it would be interesting to have better previews for some common URLs... let's say hitting a .json endpoint for a GitHub URL, and rendering proper HTML with action buttons instead of the social image 👀
Show threadIdan GazitNov 24, 2022
@patak @sxzz
Show threadShini92Nov 24, 2022
@patak I needed to translate it before I even read to the end of your post...
I hope this answers your question 
Show threadpatakNov 24, 2022
@Shini92 haha, I hope you aren't in the majority. We need a good tooltip it seems though.
Show thread𝕮Nov 24, 2022
@patak what about listen/listening instead of follow/following? 🤔 It has a more gentle and mindful connotation compared to follow which is much more attention seeking!
Show threadpatakNov 24, 2022
@chrisshank maybe... but that is probably already diverging quite a bit from the standard Mastodon terms. If we start all over, we could use "Interested" too
Show threadcalebNov 24, 2022
@patak feels like it could be a tiny bit confusing but 🤷
Show threadwakest likes your bugs ⁂Nov 24, 2022
@patak Mutuals makes sense, but without the S it is confusing
Show threadSalvatore ZappalàNov 25, 2022
@patak better to keep status and action separate.
IMHO text on buttons should always state the action they perform - "Unfollow" in this case.
Show threadpatakNov 25, 2022
@salvozappa yes, I'm thinking we should add a new toggle icon button next to this label to unfollow/follow. The current "change the text on hover" doesn't work for mobile. We may still try using "Mutuals" for the label and see how that works though. Some folks have expressed that it may be confusing, while others loved it.
Show threadSalvatore ZappalàNov 25, 2022

@patak happy to hear you are taking this route!

Thank you for your response and kudos for the impressive work so far. 👍🏼