bendoes anyone else have #aphantasia? I learned, only this year, that people can "see" things in their heads. I don't have any real endgame on asking this, but find myself curious. #refractive
Pepper@ben I see words, does that count?
@peppernut I’m not sure. I am aware that the capacity for mental visualization, like so many things, is a spectrum. I suppose I’m curious about how you handle reading fiction. I have a strategy where I place my fingers on a table in front of me and move them here and there as indicated by a text to help me. Short that I move my arms through the air in attempt to use proprioception as a standin. I remain astounded this whole year that I’ve known others can see things mentally.
@ben I don't have mental images, exactly, for the characters I read. I hear them more than see them, if that makes sense? I love Terry Pratchett and Granny Weatherwax is everything, but I couldn't give you even a description except that she's elderly and wears solid boots.
@peppernut I dig it.
Kyrie ♿️ 🏳️⚧️ 
@peppernut @ben This is me! I don’t see anything except words, but I never understood why the spelling bee contestants would mime writing a word or want to have a white board… Meanwhile I couldn’t understand how people remembered what color things were. 🤔
@Enbybookwyrm @ben you are the very first person I've ever met who knows what the hell I'm talking about. Thank you.
Aaron@peppernut @Enbybookwyrm @ben I don't understand, but it's fascinating to learn about! Also cool to see someone find someone else like them for the first time. :D
@peppernut @ben Same for me! I’ve been wondering if the words thing is actually a kind of synesthesia… I also hear words and my brain literally tries to read every word it sees out loud in my head so… my brain is a wild place sometimes. I also refer to some random sign in a corner forgetting everyone else probably didn’t even see it…
@Enbybookwyrm @ben yes! I'm pretty damned good at reading, probably because in some ways I do it all the time
Ed Yother 
@ben I have some level of aphantasia. I can only see some vague, fleeting images of some memories in my head.
@edyother I understand that the capacity for mental visualization, like so many things, falls of a spectrum. How do you handle reading fiction? I use my fingers on a table to represent characters and their movements, but sometimes settle for moving my arms through the air - using proprioception as a standin for visualization. How did you handle learning that other people can just *see* things in their minds?
@ben I always knew people could see things. I didn't realize how clearly some people can visualize things. I just don't find most fiction terribly appealing. I tend to feel kind of lost most of the time.
Debbie N@ben Same. I dream vividly, lucid dreams too, but i cant make an image when I'm awake. I have good spatial memory, see: https://theconversation.com/aphantasia-explained-some-people-cant-form-mental-pictures-162445
And I'm sure I read there's a link btwn Aphantasia and #migraineaura
And I'm sure I read there's a link btwn Aphantasia and #migraineaura
@deborahjnoel fascinating. I’ve never felt a connection between spacial reactions and visual. I have what I consider a sense of space, like proprioception but… external. I rarely recall my dreams, but even in sleep I tend to *feel* things rather than see things. I was trying to describe it to a friend recently, and the closest I got was likening it to knowing you have something in the cupboard. I couldn’t see the image but I know I have oatmeal at home.
@ben Did you hear the recent podcast on aphantasia from The Curious Cases?
@deborahjnoel I was entirely unaware of this. Queuing it up now. This is an excellent tip. Thank you.
@ben tell me what you think! :)
@deborahjnoel additionally, i have subscribed to this podcast. i was quite unaware of it and can say that it about *a third of the way* fills the “Answer Me This” shaped hole that Helen and Olly left in my life when they ended the show.
@deborahjnoel okay. So, the take is as follows:
1. I presume that this was *wildly* interesting to “phantasic” individuals who had no idea about aphantasia.
2. I liked the angel/devil analogy, but I’ve mostly been explaining it like smell to people. I know what cinnamon buns smell like, but I cannot summon the smell.
3. I’ve been polling all the people I know about internal monologue, because I’m not sure anymore about the idea after the host said they have a meta-commentarylogue
1. I presume that this was *wildly* interesting to “phantasic” individuals who had no idea about aphantasia.
2. I liked the angel/devil analogy, but I’ve mostly been explaining it like smell to people. I know what cinnamon buns smell like, but I cannot summon the smell.
3. I’ve been polling all the people I know about internal monologue, because I’m not sure anymore about the idea after the host said they have a meta-commentarylogue
@ben I got a bit frustrated with them at that point! I have a monologue, but I can't "hear" it. I associated that with "hearing things" which is definitely not what you want. Same as seeing things. I know what reality is. I wonder how those who claim to "see" can concentrate on words if there are images floating around... As you say, so many questions :/
Herstory1@ben I can only see images in my head at night when I’m dreaming, I can’t during the day. Occasionally a very small detail or line or a colour from an image will come into my head during the day but never the full image only a small part. So I always need to look at photos.
Looking for explanations…@ben I see most things I’m thinking about, memories, words, ingredients for something I plan to cook… it hadn’t occurred to me that other people don’t do this.
@ben I have no idea where I fit in. I can visualize things fine, and even think visually, but I can't recall faces at will even if they are very familiar to me. It's like I've got prosopagnosia, but only when I'm visualizing, not when I'm recognizing someone.
@ben When I try go recall a face, it's like a jumble of details minus any high-level organization. So like a nose, and the corner of a mouth, and an eyebrow, all in random, shifting, unspecified placement, but never a whole face.
Cassandra@ben I think I must have some degree of it, and that it's part of why I found D&D hard (even with a map).
Since you asked, in the comments, about reading fiction specifically: I usually skip long passages of purely descriptive text. It just rarely seems *salient* to me what colour the walls or the flowers or someone's pants are.
If the author says something like "the plumber hovered over the florist menacingly," I just accept that it's menacing; I don't need to try to "see" it.
I got really mad at a podcast once that agreed that "reading" includes both text and audio, but *only* if you visualize things in your mind. They did not respond to me pointing out this excluded people.
Dr. Michelle Fullwood@ben @transponderings has a really good blog post on this https://transponderings.blog/2018/11/28/a-fantasia-on-aphantasia/
@michelleful @transponderings thanks for the tip. we’ll read that this afternoon.
Ada@ben Complete aphant here! No mental imagery at all!
AutisticMumTo3 She/her@ben
Life growing up would have been a lot harder to cope with without my imaginary world to escape to.
Life growing up would have been a lot harder to cope with without my imaginary world to escape to.
@AutisticMumTo3 yeah. that makes sense. i read a lot of books about concepts and ideas as it was easier to not keep track of people. But i did devour comic books. i nearly swallowed swallowed them whole. my escape was often just rewatching the ninja turtles movie. I went through so. many. cassettes.
@ben
I was bullied and had parents who tried to force me to meet their idea of a 'normal girl' because they believed me not meeting that idea was me being naughty. Tellings off included being hit round the head and long identical lectures and stuff taken off me. What they often didn't include was any idea what I had done wrong, any option to ask or any idea what I should have done instead. They assumed I knew.
I was bullied and had parents who tried to force me to meet their idea of a 'normal girl' because they believed me not meeting that idea was me being naughty. Tellings off included being hit round the head and long identical lectures and stuff taken off me. What they often didn't include was any idea what I had done wrong, any option to ask or any idea what I should have done instead. They assumed I knew.