Okay, this is something that is worth linking to as it will take a longer post.
https://mastodon.social/@HelloAndrew/109351796734280182
I would say that @Gargron should consider implementing quote tweets only with an eye to how the function will change behavior across instances and how adding the feature could introduce new and unique forms of abuse as it interacts with the unique nature of the fediverse.
That is, if @Gargron is serious about introducing the QT feature, the implementation would not be a cold one as was the case with twitter itself back in the day. The fediverse QT feature would benefit from the hindsight of how the feature enabled abuse on the bird site.
This is a point that a lot of anti QT takes miss: it seems to assume that we cannot, and will not, learn from what happened on the bird site with QTs. It assumes a direct replication of the QT function which ignores context.
Context, in this case, matters because the functions of Mastodon are different from the functions of twitter and the differences will matter for how the QT will be used socially.
Again, this is something that anti-QT folks miss because they are focused on the FACT of the history of QT use and not the possibility of its implementation in a new environment with different affordances and resources.
The ignorance of the above among anti-QT people is hilarious to me because my recent threads on this issue have prompted a range of really interesting technical solutions to the problem that could enable community building AND incorporate the unique aspects of mastodon's environment to make something new.
And yet, the majority of the anti-QT people shouted these suggestions down on the basis of the possibility for abuse. Again, I think this misses the mark where QTs on mastodon are concerned.
So, to conclude. I think that implementing QTs needs to be done with an eye towards the specific affordances of mastodon and an eye towards the history of their use. Further, I think there are a lot of creative technical solutions to the QT problem that don't involve mirroring its use on twitter. Finally, I think that people are just refusing to learn from over a decade of lessons about QTs in their arguments against them.
That's my take.
@impactology @shengokai I miss the same, but maybe the reference is to a space of possibilities yet to be explored?
One small thing might be linking back to the quoting posts under the original, so to make them accessible from and linked parts of the original discussion.
@impactology @shengokai i *think* these might be some of them
https://mastodon.online/@ben_co_grimm/109348741083570193
@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] I would love to see this implemented as a three-tier setting available to the original poster: [ ] Allow QT [ ] Disallow QT [ ] Moderate QT The first two are self-explanatory. The last one would be an "after approval by OP" action, preferably served through the notification system. A default setting would be in preferences, with a per-post override in the same place as where language and content warnings are toggled.
@impactology @shengokai Lots of ideas thrown around in thread below even if mostly how to use current system for samish purpose:
--
I've been thinking about the Fediverse for a looooong time, since before it was called the Fediverse. I'll admit my thinking hasn't evolved much [...]
But today [...] I've learned *three* new perspectives that have changed/improved the way I think about the Fediverse/Mastodon in subtle but important ways.
So. Much. Gratitude. 🙏❤️ https://mastodon.social/@blaine/109343156150501648
@shengokai I'm sure someone else has already suggested this, but just in case: maybe one of the differences could be that private QRTs are disabled? It could be required that the person being QRTed is able to see the QRT, like followers-only posts that tag non-followers. Or maybe people could opt-in to allowing private QRTs on their posts?
I have hope that QRTs could be implemented on this platform with their benefits outweighing their drawbacks! I've found your threads informative - thank you!
@benhamill You're welcome. It might be the philosopher in me but I think that people's arguments against QTs tend to miss what the combination of open source and the decade of history of using QTs on twitter can teach us.
As much as people like to tout the differences between mastodon and twitter as a function of the open source federated model, they're really not interested in exploring the robust possibilities that come with it.
@shengokai One thing I have to seen (which may be more due to lack of looking/ability to look than lack of it existing) is a breakdown on what are the important factors. Like, what’s the difference between an ideal Mastodon-native quote feature and “boost the quoted post, reply to it removing all mentions and use ‘LB’”? Ease of use? Some key (software) behavior difference? Something about post visibility? Something about the original author being pulled in or not? Something about breaking the thread? I am wholly unequipped to answer these questions.
I’m just thinking about the fact that, historically, the features people have liked most about Mastodon (e.g. content warnings) have been bolted on by weird user behavior before they were supported by the software (like hashtags on Twitter originally). I wonder if there is some kind of path similar to “delete and redraft” instead of “edit” that would help define what folks actually want and need.
Similarly, I discussed a few options to make this better today. (https://mastodon.social/@blaine/109349477242394640) Very little resistance observed! Some people are lukewarm, but most seemed happy with the idea that they could opt out of seeing QTs, which seems fair.
The elephant in the room is that it's totally unreasonable and unsustainable for Eugen to be the effective sole arbiter here.
surely - the 'mastodon' in the room?
while I am here - why is my mastodon 🐘 so puny compared to yours?
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