Naveen Srivatsav
@davetroy - thanks for setting up this Mastodon instance. Does it cost you a lot to keep it running? I wonder what kind of computing/bandwidth resources are needed to enable a Twitter alternative.
Nov 14, 2022 at 10:48amWeb
Show threadDave Troy Nov 14, 2022

@sumergoconicio at the current scale level it’s about $125/mo, including compute and email services. I expect to get to 10-25k users it might be around $300, which I could probably offset with a donate option; I’m thinking that through. Either way I could justify that expense for R+D purposes, so I’m not uncomfortable with the commitment relative to the value and learning provided.

“Replacing” Twitter, which may not be feasible or desirable, is not necessarily the right answer…

Show threadNaveen SrivatsavNov 14, 2022
@davetroy on "replacing" Twitter - Elon seems to be crashing it to the ground, and we may have already crossed a point of no return. Halving the workforce, getting a bunch of trolls who have created potential for litigation and not to mention the impending scrutiny of the Feds will no doubt hasten the inevitable. I don't think Twitter (even under new management) can recover from these disastrous moves.
Show threadDave Troy Nov 14, 2022

@sumergoconicio yes, agree on all that. I just question whether it represents a design worthy of replication. Obviously its existence as a company has been fraught since day one. Now we have a chance to embark on some new approaches.

Not sure this model works at scale, and there are some risks with this approach too (islands of radicalization), but I think we are now called to experiment, because as you say the old model is sinking fast.

Show threadDave Troy Nov 14, 2022

@sumergoconicio another frame: what approaches will allow us to 1) complicate our social ties, 2) deal with existential issues like climate, 3) result in fewer mass shootings vs. more, 4) curb radicalization, 5) make extremism niche again.

An outcomes-based model seems appropriate vs. trying to maximize scale, engagement, profit. Oh, and do all this without fueling Ayn Rand fantasies about gold/money and objectivism.

Show threadNaveen SrivatsavNov 14, 2022
@davetroy yes to these goals. I see what you mean. I wonder which aspect of modern social media in particular enabled these abuses. Was it the fact that advertising-focused business models are compelled to track and expose demographic segmentations to such a degree that misinformation networks could hijack? Or was it the users themselves self-radicalising in algorithmically-corralled echo chambers? I guess I'm wondering if money weren't involved, would misinformation persist?
Show threadDave Troy Nov 14, 2022

@sumergoconicio I think info warfare will persist even without money, because there is value in herding people into controllable social structures. I get at a bunch of this in this paper.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1R_aVUrbAmkVXFF1vJWxnXE03FBtpxE8jkHF9P53n4Qk/edit

Disinformation and its effects on social capital networks

Disinformation and its effects on social capital networks © 2021-2023 David Troy ABSTRACT: The related problems of disinformation, misinformation, and radicalization have been popularly misunderstood as technology or fact-checking problems, but this ignores the mechanism of action, which is the ...

Google Docs
Show threadNaveen SrivatsavNov 14, 2022
@davetroy a bit like how (Super)PACs/Citizens United IMO is legalised corruption/bribery, and I wonder similarly if the money flows are taken out of politics, would the current level of gridlock and demagoguery persist?
Show threadHoward ChengNov 14, 2022

@sumergoconicio @davetroy I set up my own server for my own use in order to better manage my data, as well as for vanity branding reasons lol.

In terms of cost, it costs me £10 per month for my own use. I have read somewhere that larger servers can cost up to maybe around $400 a month to run and maintain.

Show threadNaveen SrivatsavNov 14, 2022
@Howard @davetroy it's of academic interest to me :) thanks for the datapoint. I was actually a bit hesitant to join other Mastodon servers because I wasn't really sure where the data would actually be held, whatever the data looks like. In the age of the cloud, I trust only big players like Amazon/Google or private individuals to run reliable servers. I run a private server for hosting some docker containers, but I know it's not reliable for public services!
Show threadHoward ChengNov 14, 2022

@sumergoconicio If you want some additional data, my server operates a two vCores with 4GB RAM and 120GB or storage.

I figured I didn't need much else since I was only setting this up for my own use from which to access the Fediverse.

And this way, the data is stored on a VPS of my own choosing rather than someone else's. And I can always wipe it if I need to.

Sure, my data is still going somewhere else, but at least I have more control over it... does that make sense? Maybe it's naivety lol.

Show threadChristian BauerNov 14, 2022
@sumergoconicio @davetroy I think this is difficult to say, as it is decentral. I know some groups already stacking up servers...