MaestroPescatoreNov 9, 2022
@FRA Great that you are collecting, compiling and publishing this important data - using the hashtag "Kristallnacht", a term considered euphemistic & cynical in German and discussed critically since the 1980s, however, does not do your study a favour.
Show threadJonasNov 9, 2022

@Pescatore @FRA

The reason why this hashtag is used today is because the Kristallnacht took place on 9./10. Nov. 1938. Thats exactly 84 years ago, so its not suprising that it is used, especially when the study is about antisemitism

Show threadMaestroPescatoreNov 9, 2022
@jokabrink @FRA Precision in such matters is always crucial, but even more important if one conducts a large-scale study on Anti-Semitism, I suppose.
Show threadJonasNov 9, 2022

@Pescatore @FRA

Personally, I don't see a need for precision here. The English wikipedia uses Kristallnacht (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht), international news agencies use it and probably many more.

Although it may be an issue in Germany (jta.org/2022/11/08/global/in-germany-kristallnacht-goes-by-a-different-name-heres-why), this toot was intended for an international audience and as such used the internationally accepted naming.

Show threadMaestroPescatoreNov 9, 2022
@jokabrink @FRA
No. No. Absolutely no. The naming is not (!) internationally accepted - at least in a scientific sense - since the 80s, and Wikipedia or news agencies are not authoritative sources. An EU institution dealing with and researching fundamental rights issues must be aware of that.
Show threadJonas

@Pescatore @FRA

Outside of Germany, virtually everyone uses this term. The US Holocaust Memorial Museum uses Kristallnacht. So does the Encyclopedia Britannica, the Jewish Virtual Library, and the Jewish Times of Israel. I just checked.

Apart from single historians who have different views, I could not find any larger discussions about the use of the word. So this discussion about using the word "Kristallnacht" to refer to the November pogroms 1938 is irrelevant.

Nov 9, 2022 at 3:54pmWeb
Show threadMaestroPescatoreNov 9, 2022
@jokabrink @FRA The discussion on terminology is not irrelevant, and it is indeed happening amongst historians and scholars from related fields (just checked with a contemporary history scholar I know personally). This is the case not only in-, but also outside of Germany and Austria. Just because you cannot find the discussion, this does not mean that it is not there. But FRA should know about it. They are THE fundamental and human rights organization of the EU.
Show threadJonasNov 9, 2022

@Pescatore @FRA

"checked with a scholar": Appeal to authority and not verifiable. I could counter with "a history friend says otherwise"

"Just because you cannot find the discussion": Strawman argument & argument from ignorance. I did not say that there is no discussion: "Apart from historians [...], I could not find any larger discussions [...]".

Unless you show some evidence of a large discussion taking place with Kristallnacht=bad consensus outside of DACH, I stay firm: Irrelevance.

Show threadMaestroPescatoreNov 9, 2022
@jokabrink @FRA One instance from the 80s, as mentioned: https://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/25/opinion/l-kristallnacht-was-the-name-the-nazis-gave-it-681188.html If that it is not large enough for you, I understand. However, I am not going to write a paper here. Still, maybe you would like to consider morally for yourself why it could be wrong to use the term coined by the perpetrators of the crime.
Opinion | Kristallnacht Was the Name the Nazis Gave It

Show threadJonasNov 9, 2022

@Pescatore @FRA

Yeah, that's a) over 30 years old and b) an opinion of a single historian. What I meant was a large dissent of a group.

I don't use that word because I am in fact German. But I also don't feel its up to me to decide, I leave that up to the scientific/general consensus.

Und damit noch einen guten Abend.

Show threadMaestroPescatoreNov 9, 2022
@jokabrink @FRA Na gut liebe*r Nachbar*in, dann lassen wir's. Eigentlich wollte ich ja eh mit der FRA diskutieren. ;)