IzzyDeadCuddles@schratze @MorphicOne Marx's theory of societal evolution sort of comes into play here. That when a tribal society becomes unsustainable it evolves to a feudal one, which becomes unsustainable and evolves to a capitalist one, which becomes unsustainable and evolves to a socialist one. That's a simplification but I think we are at that turning point now. Capitalism is imploding and it's on us to make sure it implodes into something better rather than collapsing in on itself and taking us with it.
Shawn Morphic@IzzyDC @schratze - Conservatives will call you a cultural marxist for saying something like that. One thing's for sure. I don't like any of the existing models of socialism we have now. Xi is pretty much the big brother that orwell warned us about. even if we tell ourselves he's not so bad, and chinese people are relatively ok, despite his despotic control - once you have a system like that in place, the next guy could become a nightmare of oppression incarnate.
@MorphicOne @schratze china is currently a capitalist dictatorship. Nothing about it is socialist beyond aesthetics. Socialism does not necessitate dictatorship and most form of communism abandon the concept of a state entirely instead opting for union rule or complete anarchy.
@IzzyDC @schratze From what I've seen socialism ( especially the kind originally proposed by the likes Lenin and Mao ) - they do required state socialism as a transitional phase to get to the anarchist communism you're talking about. A similar state is described by the venus project ( jacque fresco) ; but the challenge is always the same. Howe to get there from here. There is no bridge. And the people who own the means of producing this bridge just aren't interested.
@MorphicOne @schratze Well keep in mind that massive changes like this tend to be gradual and then abrupt. For Japan it took them getting nuked twice to get fully out of feudalism and in russia it took a full on revolt. Those who control the means of production don't matter in these scenarios as if you seize them and their wealth, which must be done to attain a socialist society, then they lose all of their power.
The climate crisis is the main thing that I can see pushing things over a cliff in this case. Once floods start being a constant concern we will start seeing disorganized riots and organized revolts will start taking place. It is just how things have to go for us to not die as a species.
@IzzyDC @schratze - Those examples you provided were the kind that happen under very specific circumstances. Japan, got nuked because they had no way to retaliate. That was the most horrible war crime in the history of humanity by the way.
The russian revolution happened because the populace ended up out-numbering the Tsar's army.
Both of these things cannot happen today. There is no popular uprising that can supplant any modern government. Modern military power is far too asymmetrical now. And nuclear war is simply not an option. Education won't work either. The reasons are simple. Doctrine won't pay the bills. What most modern socialists don't seem to realize , as far as i can tell, is that this war is over. The good guys lost. We are all in checkmate now. Warren Buffet said it best. His class is winning.
@IzzyDC @schratze Forgot to address your concerns on climate. I agree 100% that the floods are coming. So are the wild fires. So are the droughts. Food shortages, and smashed-apart infrastructure on a very large scale due to industrial climate change are only a decade or two away. And there will definitely be violence. But it will be a kind of neo-serf feudalism for most of us. The rich and powerful will be insulated behind walls and armies. The res of us will be fighting for survival. But if you have ever seen the movie elysium, I believe it will look more like that than like the russian revolution. The only difference is that the rich and powerful elites won't be in space. They will be on remote hideaway fortress properties that they have already bought and fortified because they know what's coming.