StrypeyFeb 25, 2022

I'm against the initiation of violence, and deeply disturbed by Putin's autocratic leadership, but to play the devil's advocate...

What's the difference between Russia invading the Ukraine and the US invading Afghanistan in the early 2000s (which Biden voted for)?

* Ukraine is on Russia's border, Afghanistan is no where near the US

* Russia actually declared war, instead of pretending it's some kind of cross-border policing action

#Ukraine

Show threadStrypeyMar 1, 2022

My post comparing the invasion of Ukraine with the US invasion of Afghanistan has raised a few hackles. It was made in anticipation of comments like this ...

"This is the most threatening circumstances the world's faced since the end of the Second World War... "

- #GerryBrownlee

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/462519/national-urges-visa-for-ukrainians-fleeing-unhinged-putin-s-war

National urges visa for Ukrainians fleeing 'unhinged' Putin's war

National is calling on the government to fast-track Ukrainian visas and bring in a humanitarian visa category for close family members of Ukrainians living in New Zealand.

RNZ
Show threadStrypeyMar 1, 2022
... which I don't believe are justified when considering the US invaded more than one sovereign country this century, without any preceding military attack from that country's armed forces.
Show threadStrypeyMar 2, 2022

Seems I'm not the only person seeing the parallels between Putin's invasion of Ukraine and George W Bush's invasions:

"In other words, the mindset of Putin in Ukraine in 2022 seems very much like the delusionary worldview held by US President George W. Bush in 2003 with regard to Iraq. Bush was another imperial invader who thought he would be greeted as a liberator, by a grateful people throwing roses."

- #GordonCampbell, 2022

Show threadbs2Mar 2, 2022
Can Bush be seen as worse because he used the pretext of Weapons of Mass Destruction to invade Iraq, and the illusionary connections to 9/11 ? It seemed like he didn't take the pretext seriously himself, when he pretended to look for them under a podium during a speech later. Then his buddy's Halliburton corporation made a lot of money off the fiasco/catastrophe.. The Nato expansion concerned might be a more substantial pretext given the history of W. European invasions of Russia... @strypey
Show threadStrypeyMar 3, 2022

@bsmall2
> Can Bush be seen as worse

I don't think so. Putin's claim that Ukraine needs to be "denazified" and "demilitarized" are no more honest about the real reasons for the invasion than Bush's were. Those responsible for Russian defence may have legitimate concerns about NATO involvement in Ukraine. The US may have had legitimate national security concerns about the rise of militant fundamentalism in the Middle East. Neither justifies launching unprovoked war against sovereign countries.

Show threadclacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛Mar 3, 2022
@strypey @bsmall2 Yeah. The Russian info ops are also spreading memes about CIA biological weapon labs, Ukrainian war crimes in Donbas before and after 2014 and other things to justify the attack, without trusting those claims enough to make them officially.

I'm sure there have been war crimes. I'm sure the Russian population hasn't been treated well. But enough for armed revolt and invasion?

Thousands of people have been killed in the last 8 years. Human rights deteriorated in Ukraine and fascist gangs were given looser reins to torture and disappear people, but the situation on Crimea and in the occupied territories in Donbas seems to have become even worse, with no free media and with people disappearing.
Show threadbs2Mar 3, 2022
@clacke @strypey
On a #HannahArendt reading binge months ago I saw where she talks about how, after WW2, all ethnicgroups?(nations?) wanted a State where they'd be the majority, It seemed like the only way to protect their own human rights... avoid being put into gas chambers by a majority. No nation-State wastaking in refugees of a different nation. She wrote of how unworkable the urge was. I should find those pages again. They made me wonder how #Ocalan and the #Kurds were working on this.
Show threadbs2Mar 3, 2022
@clacke @strypey "The Rights of Man, after all, had been defined as “inalienable” because they were supposed to be independent of all governments; but it turned out that the moment human beings lacked their own government and had to fall back upon their minimum rights, no authority was left to protect them.. ' #Hannah Arendt 's #Imperialism book
Show threadbs2Mar 3, 2022
@clacke @strypey '...governments.. openly opposed to this encroachment on their sovereignty, but the concerned nationalities themselves did not recognize a nonnational guarantee, mistrusted everything which was not clear-cut support of their “national” (as opposed to their mere “linguistic, religious, and ethnic”) rights, and preferred either.. to turn to the protection of the “national” mother country, or, like the Jews, to some kind of interterritorial solidarity.'
Show threadbs2
@clacke @strypey
#Arendt 's #Imperialism is part of her book #OriginsOfTotalitarianism The book is in #libgen . It's fascinating to read from page 267, to get a feel for Eastern Europe and accustomed to the names of all the groupings of people. #LewisMumford and #BertrandRussel also mention how #1914 marks the degradation of important things #freedom of movement, from #barbarism ... It seems like we've been lucky to survive over a 100 years of stupidity
https://libgen.rocks/ads.php?md5=17C2B6C54860A5351468A9005818A19C
Mar 4, 2022 at 1:20amWeb