"Capitalism means the freedom to choose! You won't get any choice or individuality unless the profit motive is involved!"

Windows and Mac: Install this upgrade you never asked for that will make your computer unusably slow or we will kill your entire family.
Linux: Hi which of our twelve million distros would you like to use and what would you like to use it on, a supercomputer or your Tamagochi handheld device?

@dredmorbius Whoa, that escalated quickly! 😱

@ljwrites The "but yer freechoizes" argument is more bullshit that must die.

For several reasons.

As you point out, it's often simply a lie --- oppressive systems, many "capitalust", offer no true alternatives or capabilities.

And any jackbooted Nazi (literally), mafioso, or tyrannical boss / abusive partner / cop can make you an offer you cannot refuse.

Or now-estranged parents. As I think you're aware.

@dredmorbius agreed, we need a better framework than choice to talk about freedom, or maybe a framework that's outside of the concept of freedom altogether.
@ljwrites Much of the "conventional wisdom" advocating oppressive "choice" is actually neoliberal / libertarian propaganda. Naomi Klein, Philip Mirowski, and Ha-Joon Chang, among many others, unveil much of this.
@dredmorbius It also reminds me of "choice feminism" which basically dances to the tune of "if women choose it that's feminist and free uwu" while ignoring the coercive background of these choices.

@ljwrites Bingo.

Find this lens and apply it, you'll see tons and tons of bullshit.

@ljwrites See also US retirement systems, esp. 401k, rather than defined-benefit plans:

James W. Russell, β€œSocial Insecurity: 401(k)s and the Retirement Crisis” (Beacon Press, 2014)
New Books in Economics
Duration: 50:35
Published: Tue, 20 May 2014 14:59:57 -0000
Media: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/LIT6339144553.mp3

Jim Russell is a sociologist and it was his encounter with the hidden realities of his own 401(k) retirement plan that touched off his ...

#NewBooksNetwork #JamesWRussell #retirement #pensions #401k

@ljwrites Back to the Linux context: I can't find the reference now, but distictly recall Greg K-H having a Web page up reading:

Q: Is Linux about choice?

A: NO!

Circa ~2012--2015 AFAIR.

That, and the ongoing systemd shitfest, have cooled my enthusiasm for Linux markedly. It's still the best thing going, but all is not joy and light.

(For the uninitiated, Greg is #2 on the Linux dev team, after Linus, and stable kernel maintainer.)

@dredmorbius yeah it's not really about choice for me, either; like you, I don't see endless choice as an unadulterated good. I'm turning to Linux because MS and Apple have become unusuable and actually hostile to my user experience, which isn't much of a choice. :/ That doesn't mean, however, that I can't be amused at the irony that by the choice-fetishist petit bourgeoisie's own metric Linux still provides a ton more freedom than profit-driven enterprises. Low bar, but still.

@ljwrites

... by the choice-fetishist petit bourgeoisie's own metric ...

Sure, and that (previous commentary notwithstanding) is an absolutely valid point.

For myself, the chief benefit of Linux has been my capacity to refuse the latest idiocy-of-the-day, mostly in desktop metaphors / environments.

I settled on WindowMaker in the late 1990s ... and continue using it to this day. Yes, I've tried other alternatives, and watched GNOME & KDE since the 1990s.

Constant churn of basic UI is a tremendous antiusability factor.

Other points of stability: general userland, scripting languages, editors, etc.

The churny bits of Linux (firewall, audio, graphics (Wayland) are the most frustrating.

@dredmorbius If systemd is a big turn-off for you evidently Artix, a systemd-free fork of Arch, is kind of cool now? https://systemd-free.artixlinux.org/ Idk what that whole thing is about and am a big enough mess just making the hop to Linux at all, but it might be worth looking into.

@ljwrites There are a few alternatives. Because Reasons I'm considering larger jumps. Possibly OpenBSD on security grounds, though I haet haet haet BSD userland vs. GNU.

Plan 9 also has appeal.

Otherwise, Debian w/ sytemd deps pinned -9999 or a sanitised variant (Devuan), are options.

@ljwrites Mirowski's written on the Mont Pelerin Society several times, incl. a book with that title. Here he is discussing Never Let a Serious Crisis Go To Waste, covering some of that ground:

https://newbooksnetwork.com/philip-mirowski-never-let-a-serious-crisis-go-to-waste-how-neoliberalism-survived-the-financial-meltdown-verso-2013-3/

#MontPelerin #PhilipMirowski #NewBooksNetwork #podcasts