Eugen Rochko"There’s Now an Even Worse Anti-Encryption Bill Than EARN IT"
Get your IT business out of the US. This needs to have an impact on the economy.
Lohan Gunaweera@Gargron
How long can a business run from country to country? At this rate, soon there will be no place to land. Big businesses will comply and take the easy route. For profits.
How long can a business run from country to country? At this rate, soon there will be no place to land. Big businesses will comply and take the easy route. For profits.
@lohang It's true, a lot of places are passing bad laws around IT. Even the EU has incompetent politicians pushing for upload filters and all that jazz. But we also have the GDPR here, we seem to value privacy, so I feel like there's more hope here.
Chris 
Strypey@RyuKurisu One intriguing consequence of this could be a shift in revenue model for internet services, from huge datafarms, to smaller services (under 1M users) charging users as customers or members. It could also be a boon for federated networks. How many email, jabber, matrix, or fediverse instances have over 1M users? Of those who do, how quickly would they follow Fastmail's example and shed non-paying users if this became law?
Bob Mottram@strypey @RyuKurisu @Gargron @lohang It's a slippery slope. They will start with 1M, then it will be 1000 and then zero. We ought to be preparing for a situation where governments try to ban e2ee in common use. Maybe there will be exceptions for banks, the military, police and certain government departments.
It also shows how critical MiTM is to their business model. A lot of the apparent "genius" if finance and so on is really just insider information gained by questionably legal means.
It also shows how critical MiTM is to their business model. A lot of the apparent "genius" if finance and so on is really just insider information gained by questionably legal means.
Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK@bob @strypey @RyuKurisu @Gargron @lohang
there are only about 200 sovereign nations in the World, of which I guess a third have sufficient reliable infrastructure to host Internet services.
But any change needs way more than tech solutions; reducing social inequality and toxic/violent behaviour in communities would allow recreational drugs to be decriminalised and eliminate a main justification given by feds the world over for requiring access to encrypted data...
@vfrmedia
> reducing social inequality and toxic/violent behaviour in communities would allow recreational drugs to be decriminalised
Real world examples suggest you got that backwards ;)
my experience of 25 years on the rave scene and the 5 or so years where new psychoactive substances were uncontrolled in the UK and widely available suggests that both need to be tackled at /exactly/ the same time, otherwise you end up with anti-social/selfish or even dangerous behaviour from some users (such as DUI), a backlash from non-users and further clampdowns/use of surveillance against subcultures where drugs are common..
kravietz 🦇There are different psychoactive substances and different groups of users, but the most devastating impact the former have on the latter is indeed seen when coupled with purely social and economic issues, inequality, lack of economic safety etc. This is the same in post-Soviet and UK post-industrial towns, same for opiates, inhalants, alcohol.
Exactly. I remember in 90s/00s neoliberal govts in UK and all across Europe briefly turning a blind eye to party drugs use (me and my friends could organise raves, laugh at the police and rarely got any trouble and this was repeated across the Continent) but without socially beneficial "daytime" employment its so easy for a sketchy hypercapitalist drugs economy to develop which can lead to addiction and violence..
Also the mundane issue of transport is a big factor.
If all the parties are in areas 50-100km away and there is no 24 hour public transport, party folk end up driving to them and then drive back home whilst still slightly under influence, and they are sleep deprived when driving to work at 08:00 on Monday.
Collisions happen because of this, and that becomes a big factor in backlashes, moral panics, support for ANPR cameras, cops etc.
@vfrmedia
> If all the parties are in areas 50-100km away ...
This mostly wouldn't happy if parties didn't have to go far away from cities to establish a cop-free safe space, where people can use their drugs of choice without fear. Prohibition-related harm.
Anyway DUI is easily avoided. In Aotearoa, outdoor parties provide space for pitching tents and parking for vans and housetrucks/ buses, so people can sleep off their highs before they go anywhere.
Also needs return of self-regulation amongst partypeople.
It was only from late 90s/2000s most of the crashes happened, in spite of old bangers most ravers drove around in - this coincides with "cars/bling" culture crossing over with the rave scene *and* free parties going on for way longer on Sunday so those driving back get still sleep deprived.
BTW England/Wales only started testing drivers for drugs in 2015 and Scotland in 2019..
@vfrmedia We could laugh at the cops because we were numerous and well-organized and their enforcement powers are much more limited than they like us to think. They had enough trouble policing the Carnivals Against Capitalism and anti-road movements without trying to take on the party scene and radicalizing even more ravers.
unfortunately here in Britain a lot of ravers decided they *liked* cars, roads and capitalism, and the cops were subsequently able to clamp down more because of that.
I remember the UK rave scene slowly merging with the modified car subculture and thinking "this really isn't going to end well.."
(Max Power was a UK magazine about cars aimed at young men)
@vfrmedia
> its so easy for a sketchy hypercapitalist drugs economy to develop which can lead to addiction and violence..
... when there isn't a regulated market that enforces responsible dealing and gives dealers legal recourse so they don't need outlaw paramilitaries to enforce contracts. You are pointing to prohibition-related harm and blaming them on the drugs.
I don't mean just stabbings and shootings (comparatively rare even amongst hard drug users), but shitty behaviour on comedowns, domestic violence and fights breaking out even amongst friends.
Saw far more of that in 25 years on the rave scene than any violence over debts/ripoffs. I do think drugs prohibition should end, but it must be done simultaneously with other work to improve social equality, or it will only get reintroduced..
alcinnz
Alexander Cobleigh@Gargron article about EARN IT by EFF (for others, like myself, just tuning in)
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/03/earn-it-bill-governments-not-so-secret-plan-scan-every-message-online
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/03/earn-it-bill-governments-not-so-secret-plan-scan-every-message-online
The EARN IT Bill Is the Government’s Plan to Scan Every Message Online
Imagine an Internet where the law required every message sent to be read by government-approved scanning software. Companies that handle such messages wouldn’t be allowed to securely encrypt them, or they’d lose legal protections that allow them to operate.Take ActionStop the Graham-Blumenthal...
Tony Stark 
I'd like to point out that this is the Republican Party doing this shit.
U.S. based people can help get them out of office.
The Privacy Foundation@Gargron If you work at, or with, a US company that creates or relies upon software that uses #encryption, have you added EARN-IT & LAED to your issues list?
@theprivacyfoundation I don't work at or with US companies. I'm German and in Germany
Thanks, @Gargron 👍 - was meant for any that do.
Joseph Nuthalapati 
@Gargron Could be a distraction tactic to divert attention away from the EARN IT Act or to make it look reasonable by comparison.