So #Apple just announced their plan to kill general purpose computing.
They're switching to their own ARM-based SoCs and while I have no love for Intel or x86 in general, Apple's solution is designed to ensure you won't be able to run anything but #Apple signed images on the hardware you supposedly own.
Native #Linux? Forget it. But don't worry, you'll still be able to run it in a VM for those pesky containers you're using at work.
#Linux is going to be a permanent second stringer there.
@isagalaev They won't kill it completely, they won't kill it for you or me, there's always going to be options, but that's not the goal.
It's about how easy it will be to try Linux for the ever increasing number of Apple customers. Right now it's still fairly simple and so it is an option to at least try on an existing Mac HW when macOS frustrates and optionally transition fully if they like the experience, (personal experience with dozens), however if it doesn't boot because of a T3 chip etc.
@isagalaev A lot more people will simply give up.
It's not a problem for me, but am already here. If however back when I first tried Linux I couldn't simply plug in a live USB to try it, I don't know if I will be on Linux today, but at least I wouldn't be on it for as long as I am now, because the barrier to entry would've been so much higher.
Repurposing your existing hardware to try things you're unfamiliar and uncertain about is a great way to discover #Linux with minimal investment.
@MatejLach @isagalaev , I think Ivan is right here. Consumers have the choice to buy an Apple Fun Machine or general purpose computers.
I agree Matej that going from general purpose to specific purpose appliance (because that's what it'll end up being in the end) is not nice, but I think Apple can only go so far until they start shooting their feet.
I'm not defending Apple, just giving an observation. I'm a diehard Debian user.
@indirection
I don't disagree per se, but I also think this underestimates the power of "default", Windows has majority market share because it's the "default". Many get Macs at work by "default" and as an extension end up with personal machines also being Macs.
Many buy Mac as a fashion/status symbol etc. too.
The realization that you now have a special-purpose machine vs a general purpose computer will take a while to sink in, maybe a good while.
What I've also seen, even among technical audiences, is to resort to blaming Linux, rather than the vendor, even after evidence is presented that being incompatible design decision was made explicitly and purposely by the vendor.
I think this will result in many more "well, Linux doesn't even boot on my machine, so fuck Linux" forum threads than we have now.
It won't block anyone who is already determined to run Linux anyway, but that's not the point of it.
@MatejLach @isagalaev , I agree that it will ultimately mean less Linux users.
I agree that it furthers vendor lock-in.
But thinking about it, these users would've never lasted on Linux. They may want to try Linux, but they'll want it to behave like a Mac (or Windows). Linux is just not user friendly yet, but we are getting there!
@MatejLach @isagalaev , and not only is it not user friendly, but it's still not industry friendly.
Linux (or anything other than Mac or Windows) is for users who are tired of certain aspects of computing, and will put in the time to get what the want.
For some this means re-paying for Windows every 5 years. For others this means customization. For others, a consistent, stable interface that will never change until they die.
Not in mass numbers, sure. But I have a dozen personal examples of friends and family who stayed. But getting them to try it in the first place was actually the hardest bit. If it's pretty much guaranteed to not even boot, well then...
@MatejLach @isagalaev , luckily with $60 you can have an RPI with Linux ready to meet all your standard user needs 🙂
This is what I mean by Apple must be careful in how they proceed here. We think mass general purpose computing has started? Not even; there may be 1 billion smartphones but the majority of these users are not using them for general computing. It takes 1 company to start producing stupid cheap computers.
Or via an analogy; the point of the GFW isn't to block those capable enough to circumvent it from doing so, they're already gone ideologically.
The point is to stop the vast majority of mostly of average people from doing so and it's rather successful at doing that, many times simply by circumvention attempts being super frustrating to pull off, rather than completely impossible.
@MatejLach @isagalaev , I'll be devil's advocate here and say: but is it really a negative if the "default" works for the majority?
When the default of something doesn't work for someone, or a group, they create an alternative.
Sure it isn't ideal...or is it? Maybe the ideal world is choice. But then you say "but that's what we're talking about, it threatens choice". Does it really though?
We can get really philosophical here. I'll end this with saying, we still have choice. 🙂
@MatejLach @indirection "The realization that you now have a special-purpose machine vs a general purpose computer will take a while to sink in, maybe a good while."
I think it's pretty well understood already by consumers, and they do want it. We should agree that "general purpose computing" is a historical phase when having a computer meant understanding it. Progress always goes towards closed-off appliances. Most people don't fix their cars and don't darn their socks anymore.
Right, but just because something is happening doesn't mean it's a good thing or nothing could/should be done to stop/slow it etc.
I mean the trend you described is exactly why you now have a whole new "right to repair" movement, which wasn't needed even 30 years ago.
You now have coffee machines and even tractors with built in DRM and the like.
While many don't fix their cars, there's still a vibrant class of people that do and who complain that's getting harder.
The trend has been well described in the classic by Tim Wu, The Master Switch, which describes the evolution of the radio from an open, almost internet-like platform to a closed ecosystem.
But one of the things I don't want to do is know about this and just sit here, awaiting the outcome. That's not what RMS and many others of FLOSS pioneers did either.
Having said all that, it's not like I am particularly happy about the whole x86 situation with the Management Engine either.
@MatejLach @isagalaev , well the outcome seems to be that HAM is the equivalent to FOSS, no?
Also, for what it's worth, you can build your own 8-bit computer. *Also* for what it's worth, turing completeness is kind of hard to stop. It almost doesn't matter how locked down a CPU is, if any software exposes a turing complete language, the system is "open".
There are a lot of workarounds 😛
@indirection
Well, I think FLOSS is a lot more "mainstream" than HAM is, but my point is precisely that worst case it could end up just like HAM.
@indirection I am not part of that community, so don't know, but I'd assume they've come to terms with it by now rather than being outright "happy".
I am sure they're happy that the hobby exists at all, sure, but am fairly certain they'd be more happy if it was more "visible", more accepted, more marketable, more vibrant if you will. If it was an actual, viable competitor to commercial radio.
I assume that simply because of the fact that many more people would appreciate their work then.
My point being, I don't think the vast majority of people mind or think it's a loss, but I do think there will be people on the brink of discovering FLOSS, maybe a future career in CS etc. who will have the new Mac from school, their parents, work etc. and who this kind of thing will at best slow down, at worst stop.
@MatejLach @isagalaev , well thankfully the Internet is a thing to show them there's a whole FLOSS world out there 🙂 Once again I totally agree that the better world is about true ownership of your things, and we should aim for it.
We're certainly in interesting times. It's really hard to say what the outcome of everything will be! It'll all happen way past our lives.
Matej Ľach ✅
Ivan Sagalaev 
meejah
LenFalken