the spiders 🌘🌟🌌Dec 11, 2019

okay so as someone who does some labor organizing w/ iww (mostly helping put together education programs & im an external organizer on a campaign, among other things)

i am extremely annoyed & dissapointed with the Youtube Walkout campaign now that i've looked into it more

1) (this is the big one--) it seems like its extremely decentralized and doesnt have any leadership or structure. this is a MASSIVE flaw. you absolutely positively CANNOT do any sort of labor organizing without SOME sort of central democratic structure. it will not work if you don't have an organizing committee or *something*

2) as a consequence of point #1 this campaign has failed to get even leftist youtubers, who'd be most sympathetic to it, such as donoteat01, philosophytube, hbomberguy, means tv, etc on board

3) as a consequence of point #1, there has been very little information put out about this campaign; googling "youtube walkout" turns up nothing. googling "youtube walkout boycott" also turns up nothing. you have to google "youtube walkout boycott coppa" and scroll halfway down the search results before you even start to get information aboutit

4) this is just not how boycotts, walkouts, & strikes are done in serious labor organizing; you don't do a boycott or walkout unless you have actual leverage, and, as a consequence of points #1 & #2, this campaign does not have leverage

this has been so poorly executed from start to finish, with the fundamental flaw being the youtubers who have put this together either don't have enough awareness of how labor organizing works to establish a central democratic structure for this to take place...

or they refused to do so due to the incorrect myth that "structureless is better" which has sadly infected a significant ammount of leftwing organizing in the u.s.

all other shortcomings of this attempt at a boycott stem from that fundamental flaw of lacking structure

& so even though i appreciate the idea, it will not even put a dent in youtube, because, if i'm being frank, it's not a seriously organized boycott in any meaningful way

if you want to boycott youtube still, go ahead. i just hope that the folks who organized this learn from its failures and establish something a little more serious and a little more like a true union so that in the future they can have a real impact & leverage

Show threadDella the S o f t Inflatable DragonDec 11, 2019
@spiders They shoulda unionized together first and then formed a way for leverage, Google has tight controls over their means so yeah. But we just need to be more careful with spontaneous energy for 'revolution' and understand democracy institutions that have centralization are not the same thing as a centralized power structure. I'm just expressing how I agree and hope that when people see criticism, they work to improve and not use it to get discouraged or lash out against it.
Show threadavocado goblinDec 11, 2019
@DellaDragoness @spiders centralisation leads to creeping centralisation of power6
Show threadthe spiders 🌘🌟🌌

@a_breakin_glass @DellaDragoness having some form of centralization is the *only* way union organizing is done in real life

there has never been a union without structure

Dec 11, 2019 at 9:42pmWeb
Show threadthe spiders 🌘🌟🌌Dec 11, 2019
@a_breakin_glass @DellaDragoness also without some sort of democratically run central voice for your movement (a blog, a website, a twitter account, SOMETHING) you're gonna have basically no luck effectively communicating your goals, strategy, or even just information about what you're trying to accomplish
Show threadavocado goblinDec 11, 2019

@spiders @DellaDragoness I doubt a centrally run voice is good for much of anything but for marginalising perspectives and presenting false unity

like, what if the central committee of this hypothetical youtube boycott group votes not to address the concerns of disabled people at all, which wouldn't surprise me?

Show threadavocado goblinDec 11, 2019
@spiders @DellaDragoness and of course, I doubt the central committee would take kindly to any alternative perspectives being presented, after all they're undermining the central democratic official news source, not to mention undermining theoretical unity
Show threadthe spiders 🌘🌟🌌Dec 11, 2019

@a_breakin_glass @DellaDragoness you're

a) putting words into my mouth (i never used the phrase "central committee" or implied any kind of democratic centralism)

and

b) showing that you haven't really had much experience with real-world labor organizing, because thats just not how real world union organizing happens, or how it ends up

and so i probably don't really want to continue this conversation

Show threadavocado goblinDec 11, 2019

@spiders @DellaDragoness

given the fact that you're proposing some undefined kind of centralised organization, unions tend to have 'central committees' of some sort, the fact that the central 'democratic' control of media might take the form an elected defacto central committee, etc I didn't feel it inappropriate to use that specific term

Show threadavocado goblinDec 11, 2019
@spiders @DellaDragoness secondly, why would what would hold for a union hold, except tenuously, for an online boycott that bears very little relation to 'real world' organising, which is likely to be far more fractious
Show threadshoot down the penguin 🏴🚩Dec 11, 2019
@a_breakin_glass @spiders @DellaDragoness You are discoursing with yourself here. There is no reason for an unified organisation to not include multiple ideological lines and perspectives. Historically, anarchist syndicates and federations did include individualist, communist and collectivist voices side by side. Not to say they were perfect or even good sometimes, but there is no reason to assume direct causation between a central organ and a central power. There isn't a correlation either, some power structures dont need a center to function.
Show threadavocado goblinDec 11, 2019
@spiders @DellaDragoness considering the fact that I have considerable doubts about the ability of unions to function as effective bodies of revolution or even dual power, that's leaving me nonplussed
Show threadthe spiders 🌘🌟🌌Dec 11, 2019
@a_breakin_glass @DellaDragoness unions for the most part cant act as revolutionary forces, thats true, but we should still support unions because they make workers lives considerably better