@Ben Pate 🤘🏻 What if moving a server looked like this:

1. sign up for new account
2. authenticate old account (OAuth, whatever)
3. click "migrate"
4. click "yes really"
5. celebrate

If this were possible, then a whole lot of people could become "server admins" without being IT nerds.
Reality on Hubzilla for longer than Mastodon, as well as on (streams) and Forte:

  • Register a new account.
  • Optionally: Wait for it to be manually activated by the admin.
  • Be asked to create a channel (= the actual identity with posts and contacts and files and stuff; your account is not your identity).
  • Choose the option to move an existing channel.
  • Enter the URL of the existing channel.
  • Enter the password of the account on which the existing channel is located.
  • Confirm
  • A clone of the channel is created on the new server.
  • The data of the existing channel is mirrored to the clone.
  • The clone is promoted to main instance of the channel; the already existing instance of the channel is demoted to clone.
  • The ID of your channel is changed accordingly.
  • All nomadic contacts (= on Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte) are automatically changed to the new ID.
  • (streams) and Forte only: All non-nomadic contacts receive a new connection request.
  • The former-main-instance-and-now-clone is deleted because you chose to move rather than clone.
  • If there are no other channels on the account on the old server, the whole account is deleted because accounts cannot exist with no channels on them.

  • The only two differences between cloning and moving are that cloning leaves your main instance intact instead of deleting it, and it leaves it as your main instance by default rather than making the new clone your main instance.

    It works for Discord, why not the Fediverse?
    It's a common misconception, probably even by FLOSS devs, that "server" on Discord that a handful of clicks on the Web interface inserts a new 19" rack iron into a rack inside some data centre with a LAMP stack and an installation of the Discord server backend on it and makes you the tech admin. Or something like that.

    This is far from the truth. Discord has integrated the word "server" into its newspeak. On Discord, "server" means "chat room". A chat room on the same centralised, corporate-owned, commercially-operated server farm as all the other "servers".

    At the same time, Generation Z and newer think that this is what "server" always means because they've never come into contact with TeamSpeak and never experienced LAN parties.

    Administrating a Fediverse server, on the other hand, does equal administrating a LAMP stack on the command line, full stop.

    I sincerely hope that the day won't come when someone does with e.g. Mastodon what the Outworldz DreamGrid did with OpenSimulator: turn a full server stack into an "easy-peasy", fully-preconfigured, Windows-only point-and-click application that anyone can install on their Windows machines with absolutely zero prior knowledge about servers or networks, that even automatically connects to a dynamic DNS service that was created specifically for this application so you don't even need to know anything about domains, and that can only be handled through the built-in Windows GUI. (Mind you, there are people who are actually asking for exactly this, only not for Windows, but for their iPhones. Food for thought.)

    CC: @silverpill  @Contraquestão

    #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #MovingInstances #NomadicIdentity #Discord #OpenSim #OpenSimulator #DreamGrid
    Outworldz OpenSim Installer

    How is "metaverse" even defined?

    What is a "metaverse" or "the Metaverse"? A long piece of rambling

    I am counting prims on my Big City Life sim. On the mainland I have 117 704 prims. But there are parcels like this broadway building at Park Avenue with Jazz Club, Photostudio, Restaurant, Musical hall, Opera house and Penthouse on different floors in the same building. This building is one parcel and has alone 3500 prims. lol Other parcels like the big stage with parking at long beach or the concert area in central park or my home as house and garden as own parcel have also 2000 prims each or more. So the whole 7x7 sim has more than 132 000 prims. (In #secondlife legacy is 45 000 prims I think, and you can't put more on it) In Secondlife you wouldn't be able to pay for such a sim and would pay more than you would pay for rent of rl house.
    #BigCityLife is a 7x7 sim. This means 49 x 256 m x 256 m =
    3 211 264 square meters = 3 mio 211264
    Offsim also a lot like mountains so that it looks like a 8x8 sim, which is over 4 Mio square meters
    All this is just one big sim. But you can have on your home computer with enough GB RAM an own grid by yourself and costs just electricity and fast internet connection you would have anyway as user. There is no advantage if you try to put it on a big server or whatever. The performance will be the same. You won't find a difference as user.
    Why is it so? #Opensimulator and Secondlife are old technology. It doesn't use all you have in new hardware. It is just speeding up but has not any multithreading for usual standard 64 bit Computers with many cores in processor. You should compare it with old games like Atari games you play on emulator on your newest big computer. But it would work on Atari as well. So from Server side it doesn't matter how big your computer is. As server it is enough just to take an old i5 intel computer. As User you need a lot of afford to get it running fast with expensive big graphic cards, because it is based on 30 years old openGL. That's all. But for the land you play on it is not much needed anymore. If you payed 15 years ago a fortune just to store 1 TB you get it today in every computer as standard. That's the point, why opensim is today the easiest and cheapest way to celebrate nostalgia of great times (2003-2010) in secondlife. As if you run Atari Games on emulator on your i9 Intel PC.
    The easiest way to have your own grid on your windows computer at home to connect with all other grids in #opensim is to use #Dreamgrid of Fred Beckhusen . You don't need to be a computer crack for it. Then you have your secondlife on your own computer at home and can build as much as you want and you don't have to pay anything. Upload from 3D Mesh websites your dream Models and you don't have to pay for uploading it. No need to open a shop just to pay the rent of land or your uploading of your self created mesh models. It is all your own hobby alone without costs and can meet people or invite people to your grid/sim

    https://outworldz.com/Outworldz_installer/Grid/

    Outworldz DreamGrid Installer

    Hairy's Style

    @OpenSim

    So #SecondLife is working on introducing #PBR, also called #PeanutButter. And the #FirestormViewer is working on keeping up with it. There's a PBR-enabled alpha version now. This gives me to think.



    One, there's that talk about higher hardware requirements. Now, Firestorm is actually still available in a 32-bit Windows version. Look back into the past. What were the last machines sold with pre-installed 32-bit Windows, and when was that?

    That must have been in the late 2000s. And those machines were entry-level consumer laptops with on-board graphics. In other words, these computers were under-powered already when they were new. But there are actually people who visit #VirtualWorlds using 15-year-old or even older potato computers that run 32-bit Windows. That was all they could afford when they bought them, and they've never again been able to afford any computer. Maybe it's a German thing that the second-hand market is chock-full of used business laptops that are comparably cheap because there are so many of them.

    Of course, in this use-case, toaster users have to turn down the graphics settings to a minimum. Advanced lighting is completely out of question, in fact, the shaders have to stay off entirely. The reason why so many Second Life buildings have shadows and gloss and all that painted onto their textures is so that they look pleasant to toaster users.

    Now, the Firestorm devs say that when Firestorm introduces PBR support, it will probably remove the advanced lighting switch. Not only the shaders will have to be permanently on, but so will advanced lighting.

    This doesn't necessarily mean that you'll have to replace your 32-bit, single-core Celeron M that can only use 3 of 4GB of installed RAM with a brand-new i9 and your on-board GMA 900 graphics with a GeForce RTX 4090 Ti. I mean, I've been able to use advanced lighting with a low-intermediate Radeon HD 7770 from 2012 until it died a week and a half ago. But your old clunker won't cut it anymore.



    Two, chances are that some more third-party viewers will wither away because their development can't keep up with that in Second Life. Remember when the #SingularityViewer was one of the hottest viewers? Well, the last new stable version introduced #BakesOnMesh and #Animesh, and that was in 2020 already, while some other third-party viewers still don't support either at all. The last nightly was over two years old, too, before nightly downloads were recently removed. Its user base is reduced to #OpenSimulator users who are at home on grids that still run #OpenSim versions with #Windlight.



    Speaking of which, three, this will once again show an advantage of Second Life's centralised structure over decentralised OpenSim: If you've only got one instance, you've also only got one server-side software version to worry about. Second Life introduced PBR all over in one go.

    In OpenSim, you can't expect all hundreds of grids and attached sims to upgrade to the newest version all at once, even if an OpenSim version with PBR should come out. Sure, most places run on 0.9.2.2 nowadays which even counts as a stable release while others are trying out 0.9.2.3.

    But there are still places that run older versions, even on the #Hypergrid. 0.9.2.1, 0.9.2.0, 0.9.1.1, all still with Windlight instead of #EEP, sometimes even older and without BoM scripting support. I think some are still stuck at 0.8.2.1. And here and there, I think, there are even a few with even older versions and no BoM support whatsoever.

    Some grid owners live by that typical Windows user credo: install once, never upgrade. And they extend it to their grid. It doesn't help that OpenSim is cross-platform, and the vast majority of at least private grids is running on desktop Windows.

    Others are fairly conservative. There are grids that seem like they've spent the past ten years under a rock. They've still got mesh disabled. As far as I know, that very switch has been removed from OpenSim quite a while ago, just like the one in viewers. Naturally, these grids run very old versions because the grid owner doesn't see any benefits in upgrading if new versions only introduce stuff they don't care for anyway or even remove something they've come to love. I wouldn't be too surprised if there were grids that still run OpenSim 0.7.3 while being connected to the Hypergrid.

    Forks come on top of that. Some grids still run on forks from 0.7.x days. Not only are these forks no longer maintained, but they weren't really soft forks to begin with. The maintainers only took over from vanilla what they deemed useful or necessary, leaving ArribaSim which used to be popular in German-speaking countries with flaky BoM support, probably because parts of BoM collided with the performance optimisations which Arriba was famous for.

    NextGen is even worse. It never had any support for BoM built in, not even any kind of fallback. I still know one grid that runs NextGen in spite of its gaping and actually exploited security holes. The reason is NextGen's killer feature, namely a nifty point-and-click Web interface. And your typical NextGen grid admin depends on this very point-and-click interface to be able to run a grid. Such grids can only be saved by either grafting NextGen's Web interface onto vanilla OpenSim or adding another admin who can administer OpenSim on the command line, and who'll effectively take all power away from the current admin. Until that happens, such grids are partially stuck at 0.8.0.0 at best.

    So this means that Second Life-only viewers can be developed against exactly one Second Life version. As soon as they want to support OpenSim, they'll have to cover some five years worth of releases or more.

    At least we're in the lucky situation of having a fairly new official stable release. For there haven't been any stable releases between 0.8.2.1 which introduced BoM basics and 0.9.2.1 which was the last version with Windlight. Before 0.9.2.1, the Hypergrid was split into a few grids that played it safe and stuck with the stable release and lots of grids that preferred development versions over hopelessly outdated versions. This is also why the "0.8.2.1" versions of #Ruth2 v4 and #Roth2 v2 exist.

    OpenSim will introduce PBR, this one is certain. It will have to in order to stay compatible with Firestorm, its most important viewer (sorry, #CoolVLViewer fans). But there will be a long period in which lots of grids will not have PBR. And even when a stable release of OpenSim with PBR is out, and #DreamGrid has made the switch to a PBR version, there will remain lots of places without PBR.

    Viewers that are compatible with OpenSim will have to remain compatible with non-PBR places in some way. If the Firestorm devs say that it's impossible to keep supporting non-PBR, just like they said it's impossible to support both Windlight and EEP, that'd create a rift through the Hypergrid. Users on PBR grids could no longer visit non-PBR places and vice versa. They'd need two viewers, one with PBR, one without. And even that is impossible because you can't rez your avatar somewhere on the Hypergrid while logging in. Unless you have sims on your home grid that run on a different OpenSim version, you're stuck in your half of the Hypergrid.

    The Windlight/EEP issue was solved acceptably: At least Firestorm versions with EEP have a fallback mode that uses EEP to emulate Windlight, and it looks like OpenSim versions with EEP have their own fallback for older viewers. If PBR means a similarly hard cut, I hope that there will be a similar compatibility solution.

    #Metaverse
    Netzgemeinde/Hubzilla

    @vrsimility Don't ask @Cheryl Furse for #OpenSim stats. She'll tell you what she believes as if it's a proven fact, and at the same time, she claims that all official stats, even those automatically submitted by grids to #HypergridBusiness, are all bogus.

    The July stats on Hypergrid Business know of 419 active grids, but Hypergrid Business relies on people reporting the existence of grids to them which is why "new" grids have often been up and running for several months already. Anyways, 419 active grids and 200 world-wide OpenSim users would mean that everyone would have more than two grids practically constantly running on average.

    According to the same stats, #DreamGrid has been installed 3,435 times so far. However, due to the nature of DreamGrids often residing on personal Windows computers at people's homes which are only started up when they're needed, there are no stats on how many of them actually count as active.

    As for #OSCC, they don't publish any attendance stats AFAIK. All I know is that the grid is designed for 350 avatars of all roles combined. That's why visitors have to register first, and registrations are capped. Any given presentation may normally have some 70 or 80 avatars attending. It'd be pretty senseless to come to an OSCC presentation and bring a bunch of alts with you, especially since you're already encouraged to reduce the complexity of your main avatar for attending OSCC.
    Netzgemeinde/Hubzilla

    @RoLarenRED57 @counternotions I guess or I hope that enough people have noticed that #Decentraland simply isn't what it promises to be, instead being more reminiscent of a pyramid-scheme scam.

    Not only is the world itself buggy as hell because Decentraland is all about making crypto money, and the 3-D world doesn't even matter, but it also isn't decentralised, and it certainly hasn't invented decentralised 3-D virtual worlds.

    #OpenSimulator has done that. In January 2007. And it has invented federation between decentralised virtual worlds in 2008 with the #Hypergrid.

    Just to illustrate how decentralised #OpenSim is:

    It is free and open-source, it is not owned by a company, and anyone can install their own grid (= world). There's even a special, third-party OpenSim "distribution" named #DreamGrid that makes it easy for people with no experience in running servers to install their own grid on their Windows computer at home. It has been installed way over 3,000 times already.

    There are more than 400 active grids currently, possibly many more because stats about DreamGrid aren't easy to get. The Hypergrid lets an avatar registered on one grid travel to almost all the other grids, appearance, settings, inventory and all.

    There isn't even an "official" grid. #OSgrid comes closest, and it contributes to the development, but it's still third-party. The devs don't have a grid. The lead dev, Ubit Umarov, only owns a sim attached to OSgrid.

    OpenSimWorld, the main sim listing and community hub, is third-party yet again, run by someone who in turn only owns a few sims attached to OSgrid and not a grid of his own.

    There are two virtual currencies that aren't limited to one grid each, Gloebit and Podex. Both are third-party again, and AFAIK only Gloebit offers one deposit for all grids. Most grids don't support payment at all. None of them are cryptocurrencies. OpenSim works entirely without a blockchain, without cryptocurrencies and without NFTs.

    For comparison, Decentraland is a monolithic, centralised silo. It has only got one "instance" which is owned and operated by the owners of Decentraland itself, the Decentraland Foundation. The only "decentralised" thing about Decentraland is that it has its own cryptocurrency rather than relying on an existing one like Dogecoin.

    By the same logic, Twitter is decentralised because it doesn't rely on Facebook or Google. OpenSim is as decentralised as Mastodon would be if mastodon.social and mastodon.online didn't exist.
    Netzgemeinde/Hubzilla

    @counternotions @FrankPasquale

    Even I, a long-ago dabbler in #OpenSim knew Decentraland didn’t have much going on.

    They could do some reporting, there are plenty of websites they could have cribbed from.

    If the big gaming platforms figure out a way to offer Hypergrid like homegrown hobbyists have done with OpenSim, #DreamGrid #Kitely or the like, we could get into #ReadyPlayerOne mode.

    https://www.fastcompany.com/90913837/lego-epic-games-fortnite-unreal-metaverse-not-dead

    @jupiter_rowland

    I downloaded and installed the latest #DreamGrid and got that running, logins enabled. It loaded an OAR with some issues but I couldn’t get the viewer (latest Firestorm-OS) to connect. The interface had changed a lot. I never got the WiFi to display for my localhost.

    When I checked the #MeWe group, it seems #FerdFrederix has recently deleted his account and his entire group there. The groups I did find were in stages of shock, dismay, and lingering conflict.

    All this because I remembered a silly coconut tree that I’d made for an abandoned castaway story I was blogging in 2019… wanted to play with it.

    @Lelani Carver If it has been unused for years, then a lot has happened in #OpenSim and #DreamGrid in those years. OpenSim versions from before 2020 are just barely compatible with what we have around today anymore. Maybe there have been upgrades to your network topology that your DreamGrid isn't adjusted to.

    Either way, if you should get it up and running again, you may want to upgrade it so that it won't get even worse the next time you spin it up.
    Netzgemeinde/Hubzilla