Piotr Gaczkowski2d ago
David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)

One principle I’d like to be enshrined in law:

If you create incentives that reward a behaviour, you can (and will) be charged as an accessory in any case where someone is doing something illegal as a result of optimising for that behaviour. An affirmative defence would need to demonstrate that you had safeguards in place to effectively disincentivise that behaviour.

For example, if you are running a delivery company and you set targets that mean people are paid more if they drive or park illegally, you are automatically charged as an accessory to however many counts of dangerous driving your drivers are charged with. If you are a city councillor and vote to close all of the public toilets so that there’s nowhere for taxi drivers to relieve themselves, you can be charged as an accessory to a few hundred counts of public urination.

Jun 4 at 7:15amWeb
Show threadDavid Monniaux5d ago
@david_chisnall If you are a very rich person, you will be charged if your chauffeur drives with excessive speed?
Show threadawoodland5d ago
@MonniauxD @david_chisnall that would seem reasonable, but where should the line be? Often dodgy taxis also speed and the power dynamic leaves passengers afraid to speak up for fear of being kicked out in the middle of nowhere. Or worse.
Show threadDavid Monniaux5d ago
@awoodland @david_chisnall Well, let's say that when Diana Spencer and her lover died in Paris because their chauffeur was doing twice the speed limit in the middle of a crowded city, I thought that if they had not died they should have been prosecuted for such orders.
Show threadsͧb̴ͫƸ̴gͬᵉ5d ago
@david_chisnall This made me think of those sweeping software EULAs, of all things. One of the reasons [all] software vendors say "This product has no intended usecase; any benefit you find in it is purely incidental" is because they can never know in what environment it will be run, or for what use. Which makes some sense, even though I hate it.
The suggested culpability suffers from the same caveat - how can anyone know what insane sh!t ppl will do to fulfill incentives, regardless of their design?
To me this looks like more lawyertime, only. The rich techbrös will just pay, and everyone else lose.
JM2CW, YMMV.
Show threadJamoteusz2d ago

@subm3rge @david_chisnall
Israeli PEGAUS spy machine.

Meant to track the Terrorist,

Used in [for example Poland] by the ruling party to spy the political opponents.

Show threadsͧb̴ͫƸ̴gͬᵉ2d ago

@Jamoteusz @david_chisnall Not saying there aren't obvious examples, I'm just betting terrorists do their budgeting in Excel, too.

The original idea was about incentives, my software thought tangential to that.

The kernel was: What people choose to do to fulfill incentives is impossible to predict. This destroys two key parts of making a clear case.

Motive - since you can't know the outcome, really and clearly.
Intent - since you can't know the means and ways chosen.

This can be argued against. Which led me to think, only lawyers will get fat and happy about it. And those with most money buy themselves free.

Show threadFazal Majid5d ago
@david_chisnall that’s basically how Walmart incentivized middle managers to commit wage theft, by removing safeguards even McDonalds has.
Show threadWolf480pl4d ago

@david_chisnall if I make a trading card game, in which some cards are more powerful and make you more likely to win a game, and then people with those cards get robbed of those cards, would I be an accessory?

Would I have to build some biometric DRM into those pieces of paper, such that a stolen card cannot be used in a game?

Show threadIgnas Kiela4d ago
@wolf480pl @david_chisnall the gacha-only mechanic is the problem, if you could just buy any specific card at fixed price, you wouldn't create any additional incentive by making those cards any more valuable than any other card. (and it would largely remove the whole money/speculative aspect of trading card games)
Show threadJamoteusz2d ago

@david_chisnall good point of view - to me!

I'll use it in discussions. Thanks!

Show threadJamoteusz2d ago
@david_chisnall this is the problem in polish cities - E-bike deliverers. They drive on pedestrains paths, bike paths - but with a speed of light - I hate them - [insiede in know, they are young peol=ple working for BIG food delieverer, who doesn't care about bikes, people, security]