jwzRE: https://sfba.social/@bitterkarella/116648620727300005
No frsrs da papa quoting Gandalf instead of Aslan is *definitely* picking a team.
Seriously though, Tolkien was a Serious Thinker writing Serious Literature. I mean yes, he had a villain called Grima Wormtongue -- you know, of the Chicago Wormtongues -- but that's completely different than, like, "Luke Starkiller".
Angus McIntyre@jwz @pluralistic (puts on Tolkien pedant hat) “Wormtongue” was a nickname or epithet that he earned by his behavior; Gandalf calls him “Grima, son of Galmód”, so that was presumably how he was known among his peers before he started acting as a lobbyist for Saruman.
It’s more like calling someone, say, Kegbreath or Couchfucker than a family name like Starkiller. Although, who knows? Maybe in Lucas’s universe star-killing is a basic trade that became a family name like Baker or Miller.
Seiðr@angusm @jwz @pluralistic Spaniard here, JFYI: "grima" in Spanish means "cringe, disgust, uneasiness". Not really a good family name either. Talk about deterministic nominativeness.
mbpaz@Illuminatus @angusm @jwz @pluralistic Spaniard too - I always assumed Tolkien had "grimace" in mind, but he had an extensive knowledge of many languages so who knows
jonoleth@mbpaz @Illuminatus @angusm @jwz @pluralistic etymonline claims "grimace" is (possibly) from Old English "grīma" meaning "mask, helmet".
I'm sure there's whole books on the real-world etymology of LotR somewhere though >_>
@jonoleth @mbpaz @Illuminatus @jwz @pluralistic The Tolkien Gateway confirms the derivation from Old English “mask" or “helmet" and adds a third meaning, "spectre". Gálmód apparently meant "light-minded" or “licentious”.
With some authors you can read too much into what are sometimes random choices, but Tolkien is all about picking the right names for things. It's safe to assume that he picked these names to fit the characters.
@angusm @mbpaz @Illuminatus @jwz @pluralistic I just remembered that the Swedish word for "halter" (the straps you put on a horse or cow's face to attach a leash or reins to) is "grimma", and in Old Swedish "gríma".
I can't find any statements from Tolkien on the subject, and the general consensus seems to be that it's derived from the broader Old English / Norse word. But Tolkien did have a lot of strong opinions on the first Swedish translation of LotR (he hated it) and it does fit better >_>