silverpillHow Nomadic ActivityPub (FEP-ef61) compares to other protocols?
I made a table:
https://codeberg.org/ap-next/ap-next/src/branch/main/nomadpub.md#protocol-comparison
jandi@silverpill (added @jupiter_rowland)
Very interesting, thanks for the link!
I've recently started testing Holos, do you know about it? It seems to me (not a dev) that there are similarities, I hope you don't mind me tagging @HolosSocial to ask if there's something common to any of the listed projects and FEPs with Holos.
https://holos.social/how-it-works
Perhaps it merits a mention in the comparison table?
Thanks to all involved, nomadic/portable fediverse identities is a very exciting prospect.
@jandi @HolosSocial @jupiter_rowland
The similarities are superficial.
Holos is a regular ActivityPub application, where user's identity is bound to a domain name. Having a Holos account is equivalent to running a single user instance and doing continuous database backups. The difference is in the software architecture, not in the protocol: the database is located on user's phone instead of the machine where the server is running.
The how-it-works page also talks about cryptographic keys "never leaving your device". This is just misleading marketing. The location of the keys is irrelevant, because keys in ActivityPub are identified by URIs, and what an URI resolves to is controlled by a person who controls the server frontend and the domain name.
Holos Social@silverpill
The relay provides a stable identity and makes the device reachable through a tunnel.
The location of keys is not irrelevant. With custom domains, the user controls the domain and the identity. Relays become interchangeable, no Move activity needed. This is an architecture choice, not marketing.
@jandi @jupiter_rowland
The relay provides a stable identity and makes the device reachable through a tunnel.
The location of keys is not irrelevant. With custom domains, the user controls the domain and the identity. Relays become interchangeable, no Move activity needed. This is an architecture choice, not marketing.
@jandi @jupiter_rowland
@HolosSocial @silverpill @jupiter_rowland Thanks for answering. As a non-programmer, many details go over my head, but are interesting anyway... It's like reading Science-Nonfiction or something. A lot of interesting stuff is happening, there's great characters and a million wildly complicated backstories (where oneself is, somehow, involved!), but it's all true, and the "interesting stuff" can many times be fact checked and subject to proof, unlike in Sci-Fi.
@HolosSocial @silverpill @jupiter_rowland
I'll keep on reading about it, and trying new things. I wouldn't say that I (personally) have been misled with the Holos messaging, but I'd lie if I said that I understand everything implied here...
So again, thanks for your work, for answering my questions, and for looking and going in interesting directions.
@jandi @HolosSocial @jupiter_rowland In simple terms: if you don't attach your own domain name to an account, there is no portability, and that's not different from mastodon.social.
If you use your own domain, you are more independent, but you'd probably be better off hosting a full fediverse instance yourself, instead of relying on a middleman to transfer messages. There are many lightweight alternatives to Mastodon.
If you use your own domain, you are more independent, but you'd probably be better off hosting a full fediverse instance yourself, instead of relying on a middleman to transfer messages. There are many lightweight alternatives to Mastodon.
@silverpill
The relay is a tunnel, not a middleman. It cannot read or alter the content. And with E2EE DMs, even direct messages are only readable on the device.
@jandi @jupiter_rowland
The relay is a tunnel, not a middleman. It cannot read or alter the content. And with E2EE DMs, even direct messages are only readable on the device.
@jandi @jupiter_rowland
@silverpill
To sum up, Holos is not waiting for the ecosystem to agree on new standards. It exploits what is already possible within ActivityPub today.
@jandi @jupiter_rowland
To sum up, Holos is not waiting for the ecosystem to agree on new standards. It exploits what is already possible within ActivityPub today.
@jandi @jupiter_rowland
@HolosSocial It is a middleman, otherwise you wouldn't be posting about the server downtime.
It can read and alter content, impersonate users and do everything else a regular ActivityPub server can do, for reasons stated earlier (even if it currently doesn't do that).
@silverpill
Any ActivityPub server holds user identities and can technically do harmful things, including yours. With custom domains, the user owns the identity. With E2EE, DMs are unreadable by the relay. With zero-knowledge sync, the relay does not know what the device already has. With encrypted backups, data is recoverable without it. I am not inventing new protocols, I am using every possibility that already exists. What's wrong with that?
@jandi @jupiter_rowland
Any ActivityPub server holds user identities and can technically do harmful things, including yours. With custom domains, the user owns the identity. With E2EE, DMs are unreadable by the relay. With zero-knowledge sync, the relay does not know what the device already has. With encrypted backups, data is recoverable without it. I am not inventing new protocols, I am using every possibility that already exists. What's wrong with that?
@jandi @jupiter_rowland
@HolosSocial Please don't fight or I'll feel guilty for asking!
I think @silverpill comment of "just misleading marketing" might've been facilitated by me entering a protocol thread with a question that wasn't exactly precise.
Apart from that, I love that you have taken the time to try and explain stuff to me.
You all seems to be pursuing gains in independence from big orgs and healthy federation, a better web overall.
Extra apologies to @jupiter_rowland (Hubzilla seems fascinating btw!)
@jandi
No fight from my side, I think it mostly comes from a misunderstanding. I never claimed Holos brings new things like FEPs to the Fediverse. I leave that to the experts and have no pretension about it. But some messages were quite reductive about what Holos actually offers, so I just wanted to set the record straight.
@silverpill @jupiter_rowland
No fight from my side, I think it mostly comes from a misunderstanding. I never claimed Holos brings new things like FEPs to the Fediverse. I leave that to the experts and have no pretension about it. But some messages were quite reductive about what Holos actually offers, so I just wanted to set the record straight.
@silverpill @jupiter_rowland
Jupiter Rowland@jandi (Hubzilla seems fascinating btw!)
It's a monster that can be a challenge to tackle if you expect something that works like Mastodon. But on the plus side, it may have the best built-in documentation of all Fediverse server applications, and it has got its own support forum.
Oh, and nomadic identity works as advertised.
CC: @silverpill @Holos Social
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #NomadicIdentity
It's a monster that can be a challenge to tackle if you expect something that works like Mastodon. But on the plus side, it may have the best built-in documentation of all Fediverse server applications, and it has got its own support forum.
Oh, and nomadic identity works as advertised.
CC: @silverpill @Holos Social
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #NomadicIdentity