Mastodawn

Lord Benjamin III esq.

Edit! A lot of people engaged with this and it's clear many are in the same/similar positions. I therefore thought it might be useful for me to share that Open University offer quite a few free online certified training courses - www.open.edu/openlearn/free-courses

There is also a wealth of (free) training material (for learners and teachers) available from MIT at ocw.mit.edu and (free) certified online courses at openlearning.mit.edu/courses-programs/mitx-courses

Everything from HR and management to neurodivergence, aerodynamics and astrophysics, Python, genetics, diversity and inclusion, infosec, STEM, law, Black-centric courses, research methods, languages and education, Scottish Parliament, etc. 😊

If, like me, you've been actively seeking a job recently, you will likely be aware of the impact Ai has had on the job market. Virtually every other day is a msm news story about qualified and/or experienced people making hundreds of applications without getting anywhere.

Personally, although I've had a few interviews that didn't quite land (one I didn't really have enough experience, the others were pulled or lost funding), I've now applied for over 300 jobs over the past year. At this stage I'm quite philosophical about it and recognise it's not a reflection of my value.

Along with all the other current crises, there is now a looming employment and skills crisis. This is being framed as a benefits culture led by overdiagnosis of neurodivergence. Which makes me so very very cross it's difficult to put into words. I know that's not true. You know that's not true. *They* know that's not true. It's just a convenient demographic to throw under the bus to detract from the catastrophic damage being wrought by this new gold rush.

Urgh.

I've started typing this out a few times recently and always deleted. It's not something I feel very comfortable talking about. But I am really struggling with this and I figure that if I am there might be others. And I believe in visibility and not suffering in silence - been there and it was awful.

I know things will change at some point. And I know I've spoken to some of you separately irl about this (and thank you so much for your support), but just wanted to fire a beam out across Fedi to anyone else in this shitty situation. You are not alone. Always happy to chat offline if this is kicking your ass as much as it is mine! X

#jobs
#employment

Gin Kangaroo Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey @joakimfors It's pretty scary.

DB Schwein Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey

Huuuugs
It's....awful out there 😟

I don't know what you do, but if there's anything at https://anaqua.bamboohr.com/careers that you think might fit, they are for reals hiring. It's remote unless you live in a city they have an office in. I'd recommend you in a heartbeat.

Current Openings

Take a look at the current openings at Anaqua

Anaqua

Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey "making hundreds of applications without getting anywhere"

First came the job board scraping web sites. You could search, find a hundred vaguely matching jobs, then hit the "apply to all" button. Add to that you can now tell your AI to write a tailored covering letter for each. (Which you don't actually read before sending the applications, of course, you don't have time for that.)

Now, what about the other side?

A recruiter might in the past have received half a dozen CVs, back in the days when they had to be individually posted in an envelope with a stamp on it. Great, it's entirely possible to read them all, and pick out the two that are worth interviewing (if you're lucky!), and hire one of them.

Now you get hundreds of CVs. WTF are you supposed to do with those? You can't even read them all, at least not and spend any time on your day job. We know that buzzword filtering is a crap way of sifting through them, and we strongly suspect that getting an AI to tell you which ones are any good is also useless. So what do you do?

(I'm recently retired so I don't have to worry about it any more.)

Gin Kangaroo Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey @joakimfors Also, who wouldn't hire you?

You would be an employee perk. Instead of company weasel-words scrolling across screens at lunch times, you could just read aloud your greatest hits toots.

Gin Kangaroo Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey @joakimfors The company colour would be beige, obviously.

And when ppl complain about their arsehole bosses and bad jobs, other beige employees would be like "Sorry for you! Should have chosen to work with. ...The Breadmonkey!"

J. L. Yocum Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey Curious what you mean when you say it’s “framed as a benefits culture led by overdiagnosis of neurodivergence.”

Do neurodivergent people actually get *benefits* where you live?! Like, monetary benefits sizable enough they can decide not to work?!

I am an autistic guy in the U.S. And I’m in a benefits-heavy region of my country (New York State). I can assure you that neurodivergent people do not get one measly freaking dime in pay-outs, not in this neck of the woods.

George B Mar 24

@jlyocum @TheBreadmonkey

You're letting reality get in the way of the narrative that the people firing employees left and right to save a dime are trying to push

🌊 #woke Mar 24

@jlyocum @TheBreadmonkey Oh boy! Now I feel particularly priviledged to live in Switzerland! It was a taugh time getting financial benefits as an autistic person going throuth a serious burn-out and depression, thus being unable to work (it took me 3 years, I got in debts and was signaled at the debt regional office for months), but once I finally was accepted by the invalidity insurrance, things got much better. I'm not rich at all, but at least, all my basic needs are covered.

🌊 #woke Mar 24

@jlyocum @TheBreadmonkey These benefits come at a cost: you loose bank and medical secrecy, your case is reviewed every 2 years and the paper work is quite complexe (you actually need the help from a social worker to make it through) and you are constantly distrusted as a potential social benefit abuser by everyone who doesn't know what it entails and right-wing politics who waste no opportunity to blame you for all your ills and those of others, but the whole thing has been holding steadfastly.

J. L. Yocum Mar 24

@ariane @TheBreadmonkey And I thought I had it bad at my last workplace when all I was going for was workplace accommodations like "Please let me wear headphones while I work" and "Can I please work in a room without overhead lighting." The hoops I had to jump through...

🌊 #woke Mar 24

@jlyocum @TheBreadmonkey Well, it seems you have it bad, since it seems nearly impossible for you to find public/state assistance with your present situation. In Switzerland, this kind of help is not easily accessible, you need the help of social workers and your doctors to find your way through the bureaucracy maze, but when you get the benefits, the institution is fairly solid.

🌊 #woke Mar 24

@jlyocum @TheBreadmonkey

However, because of these bureaucratic hurdles and sometimes also humiliations (you're really forced to get administratively naked), about 30% of those who would legitimately have a right to it don't request this assistance. I'm privileged in this instance, as I'm pretty well-articulate, both in written and oral form, have a good command of digital tools and have the support of my family. For others, it is a lot tougher.

J. L. Yocum Mar 24

@ariane I'm definitely privileged myself — I managed to 'white knuckle' it through 45 years of life on earth before getting diagnosed with autism, through a combination of luck, supportive parents and sheer willpower. But I had to find a doctor to diagnose me as a middle-aged man just to get my aforementioned workplace accommodations, which was no small feat in the health-coverage desert that is the United States.

J. L. Yocum Mar 24

@ariane All of that just so I could wear headphones and tinted glasses at my desk, which is its own kind of corporate idiocy. (Interestingly, @TheBreadmonkey — this was at one of those U.K.-based employers I mentioned earlier!)

Matt Hall Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey

<3

Leo Schuldiner🤘🏼Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey you are talking with the truth. I already have had 2 job interviews with -literally- an AI talking to me and asking me questions and interacting with me. It's been creepy and also so strange. Unfortunately in both appliances I didn't go forward to the next stage. But.. it made me decide I'll never have another job interview with an AI. Keep on, mate... this world is getting harder and harder and we must make us stronger and stronger.

Tim Stickland Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey
I wish you luck.
Offspring No 1 is in a similar position.
Tough times.
Austerity, Brexit, Covid, AI, war etc etc

Imran Nazar ~ عمران نزر Mar 24

@sticklandtim @TheBreadmonkey Mm, my nephew's been stuck in the hole since graduating in CS a couple of years ago. When he went in, it was a promising career; by the time he got out, the world had changed.

@TheBreadmonkey You are not alone, and thank you for finding the words. A lot of people, senior in their careers, feel like this. Also hard like a gut-punch to have prospective and curious students ask questions about a profession that is getting upheaved. What should we tell them? Stay away? They are embers and oxygen is getting sucked out of the room.

@TheBreadmonkey Same Ben. And it's not like I don't get interviews, but only once did I advance to the second round (I was notably not my authentic self in the first round). I've gotten feedback from some places that they went with someone more technical but everything I apply for is rather straightforward work. So either I'm not communicating my skills or it's a cover for "we didn't like you" 🤷
And I'm not an AI puritan or anything. I'll work with whatever tools we are using.

@TheBreadmonkey If you want you can send me a job posting along with the CV you would submit (and cover letter if they want that). I'll give you feedback but obviously I'm in a different country now and I've lived less than 4 years in the UK. But I'll take that into consideration in my feedback. And obviously I'm completely useless when it comes to interviews.

Edit: wow, that was a lot of buts and obviouslys.

Jordi (Spherical Queirdo)Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey

🫂

The Eddie Show 📷🎧❤️Mar 24

@Jorsh @TheBreadmonkey

Yes. Big hug, brother. x

SyrupSplashin Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey Although I'm lucky enough to have a job now, this is an ever looming anxiety I have. Working at an MSP with my employment being reliant on an annually-renewed customer contract in nerve-racking.

trainguyrom Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey I've had to keep reminding myself that this is the experience of everyone who's job hunting right now. I got laid off at the end of '24, managed to snag a new role which ended up literally making up reasons to fire me (probably because I don't hate myself, women and minorities like the owners do), got brought back on by my old role as a part time contractor, except old/new employer has been talking about wanting to hire me but keeps having changes in C-suite (the only layer of management that hasn't approved getting me a job offer) so I've just been in limbo for the last year or so now.

I've had multiple brilliant interviews that in any other job market would have resulted in a brilliant job offer, except either someone else looked slightly better, or the org flat out decided not to fill the role after all!

I just have to keep reminding myself that I'm making good money while literally working part time doing easy-for-me work and to enjoy it while it lasts. It's the uncertainty that gets me!

PlantagoLabs Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey I will part of the job hunter pack in a month, and I have no illusions. I am ready to apply to job offers with the mechanical rythm of a forge power hammer and expect it to go nowhere.

On the bright side, it will give me more time to work on my robots. Maybe something will come out of that (business or portfolio), who knows.

🤞 for all of us

@TheBreadmonkey yeah it's really tough, I've basically decided at this point that my next job will not be in IT, but that's an easier decision for me because I'm not far from retirement.

Winchell Chung ⚛🚀Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey

Sounds like the start of the Butlerian Jihad

@TheBreadmonkey it's grim out there... you can throw crafted applications at dozens of jobs that are an on-paper fantastic match... and... nothing, not even the crickets... it can seem as Sisyphean as trying to feed a black hole until it's full.

But it's not futile. I've been lucky, I found work that mainly suits me. But I know others still hunting at the year+ mark.

But no... don't blame the system, the economy, it definitley isn't the fault of capitalisim, techbros, or billionaries. It's definitley the chronically ill and neurodivergent people to blame, oh, immgrants too... silly of me to forget them.

Stephen J. Thomas Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey

It's getting to be a pretty big club. Today I applied to my 350th job.

Keith Judge Mar 24

@sjthomas @TheBreadmonkey Jeez! That's ridiculous how bad the jobs market is now!

@TheBreadmonkey I have recently been on the receiving end of "modern" CVs.

They have changed. I really got the impression that the applicant were doing their best to add as many buzz words as possible into the CV.

My best guess is that they try not to be discarded because some AI/automated HR system thinks they don't tick all the boxes.

I have also seen AI written applications...

You get the sense that there are an HR vs. applicant tech arms race going on.

CurlyParakeet 🇪🇺🏳️‍🌈🇺🇦Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey

I am fortunate to not be looking for a job atm, but I’m dreading the day when it comes…

The recruiter side is a mess as well. We spend so much time trying to work out if the skills someone is demonstrating are real (or the person tbh - deepfake zoom interview anyone?) that it’s making it SO hard. Sorry whinge from the wrong side there…

I will tell you that it will get better because what we have right now is not sustainable.

@TheBreadmonkey > I've now applied for over 300 jobs over the past year

meanwhile I'm at over 360 in a bit over 5 months and still haven't had a single interview

> overdiagnosis of neurodivergence

I'm without a doubt some sort of neurodivergent but was never diagnosed, and I know I'm not alone. Overdiagnosis my foot.

@reiddragon @TheBreadmonkey I can't help thinking that if I wasn't neurodivergent before dealing with all that, I probably would be afterward!

@quixote @TheBreadmonkey I don't think a shitty jobhunt can give you autism

@reiddragon @TheBreadmonkey No. But, trying to be funny aside, I know from personal experience that it can give you stress-induced attention-deficit and loss of executive function. Yes, sure, it's different when the brain chemistry changes are induced and not genetic. But even among diagnosed ADHD people, environmental causes can be a big a factor. It's not an either-or.

@quixote @TheBreadmonkey Well, in my initial post about being neurospicy I was mostly talking about having some sort of autism... but yeah, stress-induced executive dysfunction sounds about right.

Semitones Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey

> This is being framed as a benefits culture led by overdiagnosis of neurodivergence.

Can you expand on this? What does benefits culture mean? Who is framing what exactly on benefits culture? Ive never heard of it before but ive also given up on job apps for 'real jobs'.

The Wookie Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey

As a hiring manager for an engineering firm I struggle with the “I’ve applied to a hundred firms and gotten no where” being a product of AI. AI may be compounding the problem but simply applying and not hearing back has been a problem for decades. There are layers there that create this problem. Some is AI. Some is volumes of online job postings that are not real, already filled, or solely exist as evergreen recruitment tools. Some is the volume of applications. Some is just bad luck or timing.

For me AI is compounding the problem but is not the full problem. The real issue, from the job seeker side, is the assumption that completing an online application equals applying for a job. For me, I don’t think anyone has really applied until they have physically connected with a person at the target firm. Making a human connection is the best way to beat AI and get past the pile of hundreds of applications that a job seeker’s resume gets buried in. When I post an engineering role for hire I’ll get hundreds of applications but will likely interview and hire the candidate that used their network to bring their application to the top of the pile.

Best of luck in your job hunt. It’s a crappy system out there but you can find workarounds.

@NJWookie @TheBreadmonkey
That’s how I was approaching it. But my connections within the companies were told I ought to use the „regular“ application portal, and then it got lost in the pile with everyone else, which is „fair“ on one hand but also means all my extended network is not really helping that much. But agreed, it is still a better chance than randomly firing applications into the abyss.
And it’s one reason why I am hoping freelance will be different somehow. Maybe naive on my end.

The Wookie Mar 24

@samy @TheBreadmonkey

Good luck with the freelancer approach!!

What kind of work do you do?

@NJWookie @TheBreadmonkey
Used to be an architect (houses, not IT), but have worked on digital products, teams and lifecycles the past 15 years. If you have a complex product or team situation and need someone to identify the problems and then solve them, I am your person.

@NJWookie @TheBreadmonkey
Mostly remotely and with international teams…

@NJWookie @TheBreadmonkey

At age 77 I don't plan on more job-hunting. But if I was looking, I would physically drag my body into the workplace of interest and somehow or other make contact with a human or two or three. We've had a family business since 1991. A fair number of employees have worked for us (they tend to stay for many years)--and in the end an employer is hiring a person, not a piece of paper. So 'physically connecting with a person at the target firm' is spot on advice. 🙏

@TheBreadmonkey sorry to hear you're going through this. I took voluntary redundancy in February last year, thinking the job market couldn't possibly be as bad as I thought it was.

8 months later and standing on a financial precipice (maxed out credit card and overdraft) I finally found a good job with an excellent employer.

In that period I had at most a dozen interviews from hundreds of applications. It was brutal.

Lich Lillian Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey Yeah I've been feeling this hard. Thanks for making this post, all the silence from jobs can really make you feel like there's something wrong with you in isolation. Hope things turn around for you soon!

Autumn Thiesing Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey
I am 100% with you, Ben. I suffered a stroke in November of 2019, have a disability due to said stroke, and a 6-year employment gap. I have filled out hundreds of online resumes, custom tailoring my resume and cover letter for each position, and I'm lucky to receive notification that they have moved on with another candidate. Lucky.

The process is demoralizing, even if you know that the system is rigged against you. I appreciate you firing this beam, as I'm sure that I'm not the only one who is experiencing the same struggle. I wish you the best, and I hope that both of us will find our place in a short fashion!

@TheBreadmonkey thanks, I feel a bit less alone. Haven't applied to as many positions, and I wish I just developed other skills than computing at a computer.

I_give_u_worms Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey it's a #CapitalStrike

Avi Rappoport (avirr)Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey My brother, a very senior programmer is in the same boat: lots of applications, very few interviews. There’s no way this is going to end well for anyone

maaneeack Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey It's been a shitty year of searching for me too. I don't like or want to use genAI but I saw a post on fedi about kagi translate and it having silly consultant speech. So I did update my resume using mckisney consultant speech last week. Next I'm going to add the claude stop code and a prompt injection I guess.

JuliePixels Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey I stopped looking after three years of constant job hunting. A couple freelance gigs has barely kept me housed and fed. I’m now a full time mechanical engineering student.

Tech was kinda awful to work in the past 10 years but at least it paid well enough. I can’t imagine work in tech as a dev now.

I’m 20 years away from retirement age, I want to do something that makes a positive difference in people's lives, and pays my mortgage. That’s it, it’s not a lot to ask.

AskPippa🇨🇦Mar 24

@TheBreadmonkey I'm almost surprised nobody has created a bunch of AI applicants with all the right code words in imaginary resumes -- and see what happens when lots of AIs get invited for interviews. Creative ways to show the problems with the system...

@TheBreadmonkey What does someone of your stature do? I find it hard to imagine you in "a job" doing "work".

I realise that this is entirely my perception of Ben, the prolific Masto personality and may not reflect Ben in person. Which sort of reminds me of Lorraine Kelly's argument to HMRC where she is actually Lorraine Kelly acting on TV as the character of Lorraine Kelly. Not appearing as herself.

@TheBreadmonkey Thanks for saying what I've thought for years. I've been trying to apply for a job since 2010 or so. I've overqualified and am now going for two additional certifications so I can get the dream job I want to get. It was key words in 2010 now it's still a form of AI, and companies do not want to admit it. I'm also disabled so that is also a second strike. When I express my concerns, I hear "Oh even sighted folks have trouble it's not just you." I hate that response with my whole being. I’ve had some form of work for the past almost 20 years, but it’s not what I’ve wanted to do, it’s what I’ve needed to do to survive.

@TheBreadmonkey thank you. Absolutely kicking my ass. I'm employed, but I desperately want to move because (insert tedious essay about my job and my family), and I don't want to uproot my life without a job.

I'm female and middle aged, a tough sell in my corner of the world at any time. I have resigned myself to giving in, and will be having a friend who's ai conversant help me with my resume.

I might not be able to do this regardless.

I wish I'd started that bakery 20 years ago.