David RevoyNew blog post: "Forbidding generative AI and LLMs on Pepper&Carrot"
https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1129/forbidding-generative-ai-and-llms-on-peppercarrot
https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1129/forbidding-generative-ai-and-llms-on-peppercarrot
James
Poslovitch@davidrevoy After the Firefox-fighting-the-huge-Chrome-flying-ball, this is going to be my new wallpaper!
Victoria🏳️⚧️@Poslovitch @davidrevoy I need to see that wallpaper!!
Nours
Vítor de MatosCaroooooooot! Vai-te a eles!! Nem são inteligentes nem são artificiais! São parte de um plano concertado e programado de "merdificação" para nos retirar poder e nos controlar! @davidrevoy
cloudskater@davidrevoy I really appreciate you making your stances on "generative" AI clear and being so loud and proud about it. You really inspire me, David, in that regard especially. With the news about Lutris (a game launcher I used up until this week) beginning to use and intentionally obfuscate "generated" code, as well as becoming aware of some Linux kernel devs rubbing shoulders with AI slop themselves, this puts a smile on my face.
@mrmasterkeyboard I think you might like this :3
Manic Emo Dream Ghoul@davidrevoy carrot go get 'em
Khrys@davidrevoy Thanks 🙏
Kim Crawley 😷 (she/her)David, I thought you were really cool. But it turns out you're not really against Gen AI after all.
@kimcrawley It starts by a clear "no" , right? It also says i disapprove it, but it has a nuance for the computer science and FLOSS projects who use the technics (not with any proprietary AI of course, crawled on data without consent), with just their in-house models trained on small in house ethical datasets, for statistic, scientific research or image algorythm (eg. Filters, Sharpenîng, img search local). Sorry for not being in absolute purity and have a nuance. I' m like that on many topics.
eltheanineHaving an actual nuanced thought on a topic? How dare you.
People are the problem, as with any tool. I can't believe we live in a world where obviously bad people get to do obviously bad things with no repercussions, but here we are.
People are the problem, as with any tool. I can't believe we live in a world where obviously bad people get to do obviously bad things with no repercussions, but here we are.
There's absolutely no such thing as ethical Gen AI. I'm not talking about types of machine learning that existed before 2022. That's not Gen AI. I'm talking about *generative* "AI."
And there's no such thing as "ethical" Gen AI, nor "it'll get better in the future!" Even your "what if it's just local, on device!" is a bullshit excuse.
Gen AI is inherently fascist.
Gen AI is inherently brainwashing and mindwarping.
The massive environmental destruction and training off off massive amounts of people's creations without permission isn't the only problem with Gen AI.
And I'm sick and fucking tired of people's obsession with finding "nuance" in inherently evil shit. Take a strong stance against evil, or be a coward.
If only you had the moral courage of Anthony Moser, rather than the cowardice of a tech bro.
@kimcrawley Ok, I think we just have a problem of definition here. I'm just talking about the coding method, the small neural networks home made for Character Recognition for scanner, built on a limited dataset of scans (with autorisation); or a filter that auto clean line-art, like on this paper https://www.davidrevoy.com/article642/scientific-paper-sketch-to-line-art-by-waseda-university I participated in 2018. Yes, things that existed before 2022.
I think we agree on all gen AI from surveillance capitalism by corpo. No need to jump on the big words or insults.
@kimcrawley Also, I concede my wording on my FAQ (that's probably was written around 2022/2023) could be better and more precise. I'll note on my TODO to try to disambiguate this as much as possible.
Edit: updated with an 'addendum': https://www.davidrevoy.com/static2/about-me
Kwaze Kwaze@davidrevoy @kimcrawley
David, the conflation of working, innocuous computational methods such as what you describe here with the exploitive and theft-based methods of the last few years was intentional.
The use of this conflation to illicit otherwise well-meaning individuals to equivocate over "good" and "bad" AI is a well-known tactic for bogging down criticism.
It's not exactly just two people having a difference in definitions.
@davidrevoy @kimcrawley The question to ask is who are you trying to appeal to when you say you're "not against all AI"?
Are you worried someone reading post-2023 is going to somehow think you're referring to some predictive algorithm in use in hospitals 2016?
Anyone with even a vague knowledge of AI is going to know you're not, anyone that doesn't isn't going to even know to think that as "AI" to them means the shit we're all disparaging!
@kwazekwaze @kimcrawley ? I'm not trying to appeal others with my ideas on the topic, I just say what I think and do, unfiltred. I'm an independent artist with a comic project, not a doing PR strategy. 🤣
Also, FIY, in Free Libre and Open Source gfx, we have a library part of GMIC like nn_lib ( see 5.2 in https://gmic.eu/gmic325/ ), that is "neural network learning". It use small, ethical dataset. It's for making better filters, it runs local, etc... The nuance is for that type of projects.
You're trying to appeal to centrism fallacy. "I'm not one of those radicals who is totally against bad thing, I am partly supportive of bad thing, to be rational and sensible!
The planet can have a little destruction, as a treat!
I don't like to get all *political*. So when bad thing is destroying the world, instead of being on the right side of history and firmly opposing bad thing, I'm gonna not get involved and just let bad thing hurt people 'cuz it's just politics, you know?
Don't confuse me for someone with principles and a strong moral code!" 😂🤣😂🤣
@kimcrawley @kwazekwaze Oh, a Straw man. Ok, discussion is over.
I see no "straw men" here, only a coward who refuses to take a strong moral stance. The planet destroying torment nexus and the technofascists who love it aren't going to give you a cookie as you watch the planet burn and shrug about how you don't care.
@davidrevoy @kimcrawley Yeah man, I know. The "well-meaning individuals" part was referring to you! I ain't accusing you of malignance.
Try this: Imagine a world where half the critical articles about bitcoin had the author ending with "now don't get me wrong I'm not actually opposed to all crypto. SHA-256 and SSH are actually super useful technologies".
A little weird, right?
Well, he's got to play into the little trick Sam Altman chose when he came up with the term Gen AI so people who oppose the planet destroying torment nexus can get get pushback with "so you want the scripts that make NPC in SNES game do a thing when the player does a thing to be *illegal*?!"
Meanwhile, there is no agreed upon definition of "AI" in computer science.
mirabilos@davidrevoy @kimcrawley David’s post which you reply to’s exceptions are not genAI but analytical, thankfully. (Yes, genAI needs to be banned.)
mystixa 🎶🎧
piku 
minor!@kimcrawley @davidrevoy hi sorry i'm wanting to understand your position on what counts as generative ai since im not quite clear on ur stance?
so uh in ur other replies u mentioned generative ai from before 2022 is distinct and u use genai only to refer to technologies from after 2022(year of chatgpt relase which i assume is why u picked it?). gpt-3 released in 2020, would you still condemn it and/or classify it under generative ai?
what about alphafold 3? protein folding model released in 2024
so uh in ur other replies u mentioned generative ai from before 2022 is distinct and u use genai only to refer to technologies from after 2022(year of chatgpt relase which i assume is why u picked it?). gpt-3 released in 2020, would you still condemn it and/or classify it under generative ai?
what about alphafold 3? protein folding model released in 2024
Alix Guillard@davidrevoy ça me fait trop penser à Kaonashi dans Spirited away. Ce personnage est d'ailleurs une belle image des LLM actuels, qui bouffent tout et tout le monde mais fascinent tant.
@aloxe Oui, une grosse grosse inspiration, un mix entre ça et le sans visage. 💜
Cassandrich@davidrevoy I like the approach of addressing it in the CoC, since the problem is fundamentally a human behavioral problem of misrepresentation, deception, time-wasting, etc.
🌸 Ⓐnarkitty lumi-nhac 
WhimsyThe cat’s face is purrfect 
Blind Mapmaker@davidrevoy Good text, good illustration. Keep up the good fight!
Gabriele Marcosanti 
@davidrevoy that's not what an angry ready-to-attack cat looks like at all, but I like the concept.
Regendans@davidrevoy "Rage Against the Slop Machines"
Nice! 💫
FediThing 
Voxel@davidrevoy I'm very frustrated and concerned about AI – not because it will "take over the world" or some conspiracy like that, but because it's going down the same path as blockchain and other technologies regarding cryptocurrency, tokens, etc.
It's a good and interesting technology, but the problem is that it's used as a marketing term and for all kinds of "bullsh*" which ruins the reputation of the technology as a whole and burns everyone in the process.
(The Em dash is not there because I used AI, but because I'm trying uncommon and almost "dead" but useful text elements like the semicolon ; for example, while keeping things language accurate)
@voxel @davidrevoy semi-cologne? 😹
Ray McCarthy@davidrevoy
I love Pepper & Carrot* and also your Avian Intellegence series.
[* Though I've not read much of it]
Stemy@davidrevoy I think you should like this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsQtUSTSX40
STOP USING GENERATIVE A.I (Original Song)
@Stem 
great one!
great one!
Michkov@davidrevoy Armus?
J. Peterson@davidrevoy Your illustration is pitch perfect.
Go get 'em, Carrot!
@davidrevoy consider also adding AGENTS.md to enforce it! https://github.com/manyfold3d/manyfold/blob/main/AGENTS.md
@torvin @davidrevoy "enforce"
Marc Jeanmougin@davidrevoy For reference, this is a topic of discussion for @inkscape (with lots of links to other projects policies/discussions) : https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-board/-/issues/5
