Mastodawn

Kalki Rider Mar 9

What does capitalism have to do with the fact most people are stupid enough to get locked into a walled garden where they don't really buy anything but pay for a subscription?

What does capitalism have to do with the fact that we are being pushed into a future where we essentially own nothing and we're supposed to be happy about it?

Neither of these things are a fundamental part of capitalism.

Woozle Hypertwin Mar 9

@Kalki_Rider They seem directly connected, to me. Capitalism causes both of them.

Kalki Rider

@woozle @davidnjoku Then you don't know the definition of capitalism. In capitalism, owning things is generally seen as a good thing.

Woozle Hypertwin Mar 10

Yes, that is correct. Capitalism says nothing, however, about ensuring that ownership is equitable, fair, or even common.

@woozle @davidnjoku Well then, on the same token, Communism and Socialism must both fundamentally lead to totalitarianism.

Woozle Hypertwin Mar 10

Why would you suggest that socialism leads to totalitarianism?

@woozle @davidnjoku Show me where it hasn't.

@Kalki_Rider All of Scandinavia?

You're viewing our current situation in a short-sighted way. Paying for subs means we're basically renting... from the rich person who owns the material or rights.

The landlord is a part of capitalism.

@solitha @woozle @davidnjoku Scandinavia doesn't exactly have the best speech laws. Let alone privacy.

@Kalki_Rider They're better off than where we are, and worlds better than where we're going.

@solitha @woozle @davidnjoku No, they are not. Say the wrong thing there and the police will come to your door. Fail to comply with their complaints and you will suffer. This is not freedom.

@Kalki_Rider They are the strongest democracies in the world, with the highest dedication to human rights.

I don't know where you are, but my US is failing in both metrics, rapidly.

@solitha @woozle @davidnjoku Human rights which don't include freedom of speech or expression. Also, they are a nation of no account or importance.

@Kalki_Rider I'm not sure you have any idea what you're talking about.

Scandinavia is not "a nation". They are multiple nations. The strongest democracies. The highest rankings for human rights. The happiest citizens, well-educated and healthy, with high trust for their governments. Because they fought for, and won, socialist democracies.

Everything you've said otherwise describes the US, a toxic capitalism falling into totalitarianism via the few who own everything.

@solitha @woozle @davidnjoku It is of no account. And, it is not a free democracy. Call it what you like, but it's no better than any other European cesspit as far as freedom goes.

@solitha @woozle @davidnjoku

@Kalki_Rider I think you fell into a propaganda trap of some sort.

"not a free democracy" 🙃

From your profile, looks like you fell into the same trap with religion.

Hope you get out of it and get to see the world as it is, not what you're told.

I'm done. Muting now.

Neither do theocracies fwiw.

Petra van Cronenburg Mar 10

@solitha Look at the profile. Typical trolling, nearly no followers. @[email protected] @woozle @davidnjoku

@NatureMC Yeah, look at mine. I don't judge by that metric, at least not on its own. Sometimes people have reasons.

Petra van Cronenburg Mar 10

@solitha That's different! I look at the combination of trolling/followers visible at their post & replies. The ratio between troll comments and followers is often 100:1. 😉
You don't troll.

@NatureMC I might, or might come across as if I am, but it's not something I try to do.

I actually didn't see a lot of trolling in his profile. Just this thread, and a reply to someone else indicating Islamophobia.

🤷

Reg Mar 10

@solitha @woozle @davidnjoku

You think that doesn't happen in capitalist-rentier states?

Woozle Hypertwin Mar 10

Even if true, that has nothing to do with socialism.

@solitha @davidnjoku

Kalki Rider Mar 11

@woozle @solitha @davidnjoku Oh but it does. Because it's basically a pyramid scheme that requires authoritarianism to keep in place for any extended period of time. Until the inevitable collapse, that is.

Woozle Hypertwin Mar 11

Socialism is not a pyramid scheme nor does it require authoritarianism. It tends to work against authoritarianism, in fact, by diluting concentrations of power.

...unless you are defining "socialism" quite differently than I am -- perhaps you could share your definition? ...that is to say, what characteristics identify a system as "socialist"?

@solitha @davidnjoku

Supervinh47 Mar 10

@Kalki_Rider @solitha @woozle @davidnjoku You have a point. Here in USA, you don't even have to say a damn thing and ICE will still show up and abduct you and your kids. Failure to comply doesn't lead to suffering, just summary execution. Is this freedom to you?

Kalki Rider Mar 11

@Supervinh47 @solitha @woozle @davidnjoku Ice can't do anything to US citizens.

Woozle Hypertwin Mar 11

@Supervinh47 @solitha @davidnjoku

I guess you haven't been keeping up with the news? Yes, they have abducted many US citizens. Some are still in custody. Some have managed to get released, but with no compensation or any consequence to the abductors.

Reg Mar 10

The post-war social democracies of Europe showed the lowest income inequality and the greatest social mobility of any Western region ever.

Admittedly those advances only existed because members of the various European Establishments were petrified of permanently losing their privileged status to a socialist state, but the principle stands.