Vivaldi BrowserFeb 23

The anti-Big-Tech movement isn't a trend, it's a correction. Our societies spent 20 years accepting surveillance capitalism as normal. And now, we're slowly remembering we have choices.

Sure, switching browsers is a small thing. But small rebellions are how everything big begins, or so we like to believe. 🤞

If you think about those around you, have you noticed an increased awareness lately about what's behind the tech they use?

#ethics #BigTech #browser

Show threaduser.365
@Vivaldi absolutely right! I discovered that the tech you use, is a choice. Going deeper, I discovered that a solution is independent, open-source software. You guys are sort of independent but is there a reason why Vivaldi isnt open-source?
Feb 23 at 3:53pmWeb
Show threadTrit’Feb 23

@user365 There is:
https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/why-isnt-vivaldi-browser-open-source/

@Vivaldi

Show threadGabriel PiresFeb 23

@TritTriton @user365 @Vivaldi > Even though most of the security-relevant code for Vivaldi browser is in Chromium, there is also some security-relevant code in the UI. If you think that specific security-relevant parts of the UI should be open-sourced to make Vivaldi more trustworthy, let us know, and we’ll consider putting it out as part of our code bundles, so you can check it for yourselves.

That's an unfalsifiable claim without source code access, how can you "check it for yourself" w/o it?

Show threadohirFeb 23
@gsprs @TritTriton @user365 @Vivaldi
> you can check it for yourselves.
In what they hide is nothing, IMO, that non-expert "can check for yourself". Even if one is an expert who is able and wiling and have resources, the others must trust in that person expertise and integrity no less than they must trust in expertise and integrity of the whole Vivaldi team. The fallacy of "open for security" is that, a fallacy. As well as "it is open, someone had to look through that code". I am (was) an expert hence I know that I have no knowledge, time and skills that would let me "check for myself" even a promille of open sourced code I used. Nor I have illusion that many others already did it for me. Details to be found in Heartbleed popular nerdpress.
I trust Vivaldi team will spot the danger if Chromium owners would come rogue (or hacked, or compelled to be evil). Because so far they are only EU based team having means to keep on doing it. I wished they can use EU's Norwegian Fund, but afaik they cant. I personally am ok with the explanation and rationale laid in the Julien's post. Godspeed!
Show threadGabriel PiresFeb 24

@ohir @TritTriton @user365 @Vivaldi “I prefer European™️ proprietary spyware (Vivaldi), it keeps me safe from the evil American open source project (Chromium)”

Braindead. There was no argument in that post beyond “we want to commercialize our brand and sell your data”, accepting spyware just because the people harvesting your data live in Europe, especially when non-spying alternatives exist, is just sad, but also hilarious.

Show threadohirFeb 24
@gsprs @TritTriton @user365 @Vivaldi can you list "non-spying" alternatives you would tell your grandma to install herself?
Show threadGabriel PiresFeb 24
@ohir @TritTriton @user365 @Vivaldi Grandma is not interested in “fighting big tech” and “resisting capitalism” so she’ll be just fine on Chrome, there’s no need to install a false revolutionary messiah on her computer that’s just going to harvest her data all the same and sell it to the same buyers. If grandma really wanted to get away from all of this she ought to minimize her exposure to the modern web instead, it’s the only real solution.
Show threadGabriel PiresFeb 24
@ohir @TritTriton @user365 @Vivaldi But if grandma refuses to or can’t let go of the modern web she could try the Tor Browser, ungoogled-chromium, etc, basically anything that isn’t just Chrome/Firefox bundled with even more spyware on top, which is the case with Vivaldi.
Show threadohirFeb 24

@gsprs @TritTriton @user365 @Vivaldi I'd like to see how average grandma aims at compiling Chromium or TorBrowser from the sources. Heck, even seeing her checking Chromium macOS bundle before she self-signs the content to proceed with install would make.

Ignorance is bliss. Magic thinking soothes the reality.

Show threadGabriel PiresFeb 24
@ohir @TritTriton @user365 @Vivaldi Other people have already compiled Chromium and Tor Browser for you: https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium#downloads https://www.torproject.org/download/
If grandma is able to install Vivaldi she's able to install these... and I just realized your instance is @vivaldi.net, idk why I didn't read the instance name before wasting my time trying to talk you out of advertising a product you're clearly invested in selling to others.
Show threadohirFeb 24

@gsprs @TritTriton @user365 @Vivaldi
How do you know whether published binary reflects all and only what published source says?

Ah, you just *trust* in whomever published this binary. I for instance do not trust published binaries. I assume a malicious party might have access to the build pipeline. In fact a malicious party could have access to the private keys of trusted maintainer.

Show threadCatweazleFeb 23

@TritTriton @user365 @Vivaldi, the small part of the code which is proprietary, but full auditable is the part related to the UI, nothing relevant to the privacy feature, but Chrome and EDGE are very hungry to this part, if they could fork it it would be the end of Vivaldi and all other Chromium browsers.

For Firefox and forks it is easy to be OpenSource, because there isn't any big corporation which use ore made Gecko browsers, not so with Chromiums as by far the most used and used also as base for the worst Data hogs out there.

Vivaldi as the only relevant EU browser and also the most advanced and feature rich existing one, need to protect more than others it's unique features and souvereign against the big global players, for the own existence and the one of others, in a brutal market of almost 100 different browsers and othe 70 which had already lost the battle.

Because this it's pretty irrelevant currently, if a browser is 100% OpenSource or only an 96%, there are more important other points, like the community, the ethics and transparency of the company.