Carina C. Zona

It's sad to see Cory Doctorow disparage avoidance of LLMs as "purity culture." I usually admire people for making difficult choices in a sincere effort to live in accordance with their values, especially when those values center being considerate of shared resources such as environment & economy.

There are certain values that are important enough to me that I can't stand looking in the mirror if I consciously betray them. Using LLMs would make me feel like I'm disrespecting the skills that I spent a lifetime of painstaking work (and a fuck-ton of student debt that I'll be repaying until I die) acquiring, disrespecting every working class person and siding with the oligarch class against them, helping to raise energy prices that already strain so many people including myself, and ultimately helping to tip the scales of climate change in favor of existential threats. That's not a way to feel awesome about the girl in the mirror.

But even if none of those reservations existed, I doubt I'd be keen on LLMs anyway. Because, much like video gaming (which I also avoid), LLM use just seems like a tedious distraction from things in life that I find most enjoyable. I loved my career because of how it fit so well with my skills and interests. Why would I invite a machine to strip my career down into something far less personally engaging? I love to write, and I love exercising my (admittedly limited supply of) creativity. Punting on those opportunities is the last thing that appeals to me.

So I do not see the point in disparaging people for prioritizing the things they find most fulfilling, avoiding the things they find most demotivating, and most of all trying to live in a way that attempts to be thoughtful about coexisting with others.

I'm disappointed in the messenger, but it's just one more tiny data point of ultimately unpersuasive rhetoric that still hasn't sold me on the notion that there is fun to be had from participating in a system that is dedicated to ensuring that memory, storage, clean water, affordable energy, privacy, and other nice things become so scarce that only the wealthiest people on earth can eventually access them.

So call it "purity culture" if you need to. It won't shame me into doing what you want.

Feb 21 at 1:50pmWeb
Show threadCarina C. ZonaFeb 21

"I'm not into X or Y, because I enjoy exercising my own creativity and that's what is most engaging for me."

"You don't get how productive X and Y make you."

📢 That giant whooshing sound of a point flying past some folks' head.

To be clear, being "productive" is not my metric for living a life of fulfillment, serenity, and meaning. "Productivity" is about optimizing employer profitability, which is an entirely separate issue. I am a manager, so do need to care about it from 9-5. But it is not the basis for how I make choices about my life.

Also, I can care about my team's productivity at work without prioritizing just one (very dubious) method for pursuing it. There's no conflict there except what is artificially generated by unethical marketers.

Show threadCarina C. ZonaFeb 21

I'm fascinated by those who want to argue that LLM skeptics need to get over their reservations, because employers are making demands.

What I hear in that is that you lack worker solidarity, courage, or conviction; and that you want others to make you more comfortable with your capitulation by following your lackluster lead. Nah, thanks, bro. Some of us are willing to push back on shitty ideas and to accept that potentially not everyone will be thrilled by that. But if you joined us, that would make a real difference. Actors, who are unionized, were able to push back hard against being replaced by AI. They didn't get every concession they wanted, but by standing united in solidarity they protected a lot of jobs and juicy creativity from being replaced by genAI dreck. We could do the same. Your choices help determine how viable it is to succeed.

If you have a 6 figure tech salary, and have no savings to survive saying no to shitty ideas, that's on you for bad financial planning. But it's never too late to open a Fuck You Savings account so you too can feel emboldened to make meaningful choices.

Show threadmirabilosFeb 21
@cczona … there are people with six-figure salaries in tech?
Show threadCarina C. ZonaFeb 22
@mirabilos uh, 100,000-999,999 have six figures. Yes, a lot of people in (US) tech centers have been making six figures going back to the first boom.
Show threadmirabilosFeb 22
@cczona phew. Even converted to US dollars, ours are not even close.
Show threadCameronFeb 21
@cczona Generally reasonable take. Respectfully though, unlike videogames, LLM usage can boost productivity which is the bottom line that most (all?) employers will likely factor in.

I wholly understand a desire to do the things that make you happy and bring you joy. With that said, I would make sure that your career path is completely insulated from AI (ie you are doing a trade or own your own business).

Otherwise, avoiding LLMs 'on principle' doesn't actually prepare you for the world we are moving towards
Show threadCliff'sEsportCornerFeb 21
@macallik @cczona respectfully video games, or even broader all games, can not only be used for learning but for actual problem solving just a single example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foldit
Foldit - Wikipedia

Show threadCarina C. ZonaFeb 21
@CliffsEsport Dude. You reallllllly missed the point.
Show threadCliff'sEsportCornerFeb 21
@cczona That happens more than I wish. I thought I was responding to the comment by Cameron "unlike videogames, LLM usage can boost productivity". Though perhaps that wasn't clear from context? Was using a form of philosophical logic in attacking, in a respectful way his argument against you.
Show threadCameronFeb 21
@CliffsEsport @cczona Good to know, but OP said they don't play videogames which is why I used it in the analogy
Show threadCarina C. ZonaFeb 21

@macallik Empirical research keeps showing that actual productivity gains range from net negative all the way to meaninglessly tiny positive. You're favoring rhetoric over data, which you can do if you want but I don't find it persuasive. You can scroll through my TL to find research finding, over and over, a significant gap between LLM users' perceptions of productivity vs the reality.

Regarding the unsolicited career advice, it's astonishing to presume that anyone in the industry is unaware of employer pressure to adopt LLMs. The second sentence of my post emphasizes that living in consonance with one's values _when it's not easy_ is what I admire.

Ultimately, you're just rehashing the tired and debunked refrain that "those who don't accept LLMs will [supposedly] be left behind." Meanwhile the empirical data suggests that it's far more likely that using LLMs degrades skills -- which in the long term risks throwing away much of the education and experience that make someone distinctively valuable.

Employer pressure is rooted in the glittering prospect of diminishing workers' power and making workers fungible, not in the debunked claims of productivity enhancement. Individuals jumping into LLM use without implementing a plan to keep skills razor sharp is going to be disastrous for their careers in the long run.

I'm fine with being supposedly "left behind" from the harms being wreaked on my industry, and not taking on the weight of part ownership over consequent harms to everyone. It's sad to walk away from what I've been passionate about for 30+ years, but my eyes are very open.

Show threadCameronFeb 21
Started typing out a long response, but if your eyes are open to the possibilities, then we are on the same page. Have a good day