James R KirkHow I imagine those crying "i tHouGHT StAr Trek WAs suPPosEd tO bE a UtOPia"
lime!
SibilantjoeWhat? No. The Culture is about individual freedom to a high degree, even the AIs (Minds) running the show are individuals that often disagree with each other about how to proceed.
from inside it, yeah. but the people fighting against them don’t see that part. the first book makes it pretty clear that they see the culture as a ruthless unfeeling war machine that absorbs worlds into its ideology without consent.
Ah, I see what you mean now.
Yes, in part, the struggles of a person inside a utopia would be difficult for an audience to appreciate, so The Culture novels and Star Trek both take the action to the margins, where things are messy and the struggles are more familiar.
Expects utopian society, only watches first episode. Ignores every instance where things aren’t utopian / breaks rules.
DS9 great example of non utopia. Shit TNG had a ton of examples of how Starfleet isn’t perfect and there’s still political bs.
Value SubtractedThe best nostalgia is nostalgia for something that never existed in the first place.
I love TOS because Kirk was a renegade rule breaker who had lots of sex, and Spock was stoic and never showed emotion ever. Also is there a more iconic phrase than “Beam me up Scotty”?
UnderpantsWeevilDS9 great example of non utopia.
It’s a great example of the struggles to achieve utopia and the decisions made in pursuit of those goals.
Skullgrid
pimento64Borg were the good guys the whole time. History is simply written by the most violent and territorial species.
/r/thecollectivedidnothingwrong
I think the writers screwed up the Borg when they added the queen.
They would be a much better antagonist if they they remained just a collective as they would be a dark mirror of the federation, by having unity and collectivism without diversity and freedom, and could complement the Ferengi, which could have been the federation’s dark mirror with superficial level freedom marred by hyper-indivualism.
It would be even better if in addition the borg only offered assimilation to individuals by choice, defending their right to join with overwhelming force and leaving everyone else alone. There would be a whole moral to-do about prisoners choosing the collective and the borg showing up to get them and then the Starfleet people who are lonely decide to go and then someone thinks they need to save one of those people so they go in with a plan to destroy the collective from within but realize that everyone is there by choice and they have the option to leave but don’t.
If the Borg behaved like the hive-mind from Pluribus - friendly but compelled to assimilate (“Everyone is happy here, we promise”) - I think that would have been a lot more interesting in the same way it makes Pluribus so interesting
One of the best things about DS9 is that they touched on the idea that those outside the Federation see the Federation as exactly how you just described.
For me that kind of ethics play and such is what is part of what is missing from new trek.
I swear there’s a subset of trekkies that gets mad at every episode that isn’t about figuring out how to pet alien puppies
I’m not trying to encourage those people, but just speaking personally… I wouldn’t mind a spinoff that involved a gallant and diverse crew figuring out how to pet a different alien puppy every week.
Starring “Book” from Discovery.
All my base are belong to futile.
OpenStarsI don’t think the show ever claimed for it to be a utopia, but they have no homelessness, hunger, etc. at least on Earth and member worlds. That doesn’t mean there isn’t that outside the Federation or on distant colonies which tend to be left to their own devices. For instance, Tasha Yar’s homeworld was a failed colony. We don’t know at what point it failed or if/when the Federation stepped in.
By DS9, it was bluntly stated that Earth was a utopia.
Stated bluntly? Surely you jest. Which episode? The closest I can recall is when Sisko, in an emotionally charged rant called it a “paradise” compared to the frontier. But that’s far from describing it as Utopia. And even then, that’s just Earth. Not the entire Federation.
The Maquis Episode 1.
Technically it is paradise, but it feels equivalent enough.
DS9 also had martial law declared on Earth. Some characters may refer to Earth as a paradise, but you as a viewer are supposed to realize that’s a comfortable illusion.
DS9 also makes it clear why the populace accepts martial law so cleanly and that part of it comes from a people who live in paradise and aren’t used to threats in their security.
That this episode was made 5 years before 9/11 is astounding in what it gets right about the populace of a democratic system filled with comfortable people accept a loss of liberty due to a perceived external threat.
That’s very true, and it might be fair to call Earth a kind of paradise before the Dominion war hit. I think we might actually be hitting up against an important distinction between “paradise” and “utopia”. To me, a paradise can be a brief and fragile perfect place that can’t long endure. But a utopia is a kind of political project that would need to be designed to survive threats and maintain itself. If a society becomes so complacent that just the idea of a foe can upend it, I wouldn’t consider it utopian.