@benroyce this reminds me of a recently published argument between Chomsky and Moinbot on whether what happened during the terrible Rwanda wars was a genocide or an atrocity.The letters between them really sounded like they fell out. I think there's a bit of pride in there too.

Appreciate I'm massively simplifying their correspondence. And I say that only to somewhat mitigate fear of trolling, which further highlights your point.

@TenPastTwo

i won't troll you but i will castigate you

never mention #Chomsky again

nevermind him licking #Putin's boots over the invasion of #Ukraine

Noam is in the #EpsteinFiles defending #Epstein

he did this *after* Epstein was revealed as a pedophile human trafficker

Fuck #NoamChomsky

And I am not attacking the left, ironically, in contradiction to what I have said above:

A pedophile/ #imperialism apologist is not of the left

Chomsky is not of the left

Not anymore at least

@benroyce

Ok then, if chomsky isn't on the left because he's a pedophile supporter (agreed) then people who eat other animals aren't on the left either because they perpetuate a globalised violent system of exploitation torture and murder for their own taste preferences in direct contradiction of left principles of justice equality and fairness.

See what non-human victims go through
VVV
https://nationearth.com

#Left #Leftism #Vegan #Veganism #TotalLiberation #Anarchism #Veganarchism #LeftistUnity

@ambiguous_yelp

interesting hijacking angle

and while i have no problem with your agenda, the way you hijack this discussion isn't going to win you any converts

@benroyce

This is the larger point I was trying to make and why I don't consider what I did as hijacking

You start off by saying the left must be united against the right, but then you carve out a specific exception for when we should shun those on the "left". When people "divide the left" they do it for principled reasons not because theyre opposed to any sort of collaboration. In fact it is the whole idea of "leftist unity" that is idealist, the idea that eveyrone on the left shares fundamental values is just naive and kind of patronising. Really the labels left and right aren't very useful at all they are broad tendancies and don't point to any particular ideology or set of foundational beliefs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-jwkMEGHG8

@cy

That's the problem though, "those who like bacon" are holding others in bondage, and I'm not going to throw pigs under the bus by ignoring that violation of liberty for my own benefit

I'm an intersectional anarchist, I dont compromise on anybody's rights when organizing: no exceptions. We need to start as we mean to go on otherwise we will reproduce systems of oppression forever

See what non-human victims go through
VVV
https://nationearth.com

#Speciesism #HumanSupremacy #Pigs #TotalLiberation #Intersectionality

@cy

It's like youre saying to me "you have to work with the racists and the misogynists because youre all oppressed under capitalism so you have to swallow your pride and put aside your differences" and its like no, if their values include the oppression of others then it would be counterproductive to include them in any liberatory project

#Racism #Sexism #Capitalism

@ambiguous_yelp @cy

Movements that work together succeed

Movements that shit on their ideological neighbors fail

If you just want to be a judgmental edgelord on social media, by all means enjoy yourself

But that's all you're going to get with your approach

@benroyce

Succeed at what? If the liberation isn't total liberation then its a failure. The means don't justify the ends. I will not ignore the oppression of non-human animals or of any oppressed group for some arbitrary notion of success

#TotalLiberation #Anarchism #Veganarchism #Veganism #Speciesism #HumanSupremacy

@ambiguous_yelp

That's fine. I have no problem with your goals

I would get investment into artifical meat vat tech and make it cheaper than animal meat and succeed thataways

But you don't actually care about your stated goals

All you care about is posturing on social media

@benroyce

I hear this a lot from carnists "I have no problem with veganism" and its like a kind of faux middle ground whereby because you respect my position I have to respect yours.

Simply no. Oppressing other creatures is not something I tolerate, and I really don't care about your approval of my position on that

Oh you don't object to me not killing innocent defenseless creatures? That's big of you.

#Speciesism #HumanSupremacy #Carnism #Veganism