SecondUniverse (she/her/they)

"The 312-page ruling found that NHS Fife had harassed Peggie by not revoking Upton’s permission to use the women’s changing room on an interim basis after her initial complaint until different work rotas for the pair could take effect."

What the fuck? Upton didn't need "permission" to use the changing room surely? Unless I read this wrong the ruling sounds really bad for trans rights.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/08/scottish-nurse-secures-partial-victory-in-trans-doctor-changing-room-case

#trans #ukpol

Scottish nurse wins part of her tribunal in trans doctor changing room case

Sandie Peggie wins harassment claim but tribunal dismisses allegations of discrimination and victimisation

The Guardian
Dec 8 at 8:13pmWeb
Show threadRichRARobiDec 8

@SecondUniverse

The #ukhighcourt ruling appeared to be written by a Victorian #extremist with a garbled mind. Have you tried to read it? Utter gobbledegook claptrap.

#ukgovernment and the whole #establishment
is badly in need of an overhaul

Show threadValanhaDec 8
@SecondUniverse Granted, I am not familiar with UK law and proceedings, but my quick read of the press summary doesn't mean quite that. I think it means that there was no reason to deny her permission, until there was a complaint, and then it would be on an interim basis until a solution is found - which it was via alternating rota (so they were not on same or adjacent shifts). Essentially, from what I can tell, this is a pretty solid blow to what the GCs wanted, even if it hands them a token victory of "harassment was upheld" - but only by NHS, and not harassment of any personal kind, but rather, a failure to adhere to better/proper procedure. Essentially, that they should have handled it better, so here is some compensation. Anything against the good Dr. was dismissed, and the judge even commented on the unfortunate political positions Peggie held that worked against her case.
Show threadAngela Glansbury 🚽Dec 8
@Valanha @SecondUniverse
peggie's legal representation have said parts of the ruling are "hugely problematic" so it sounds like for women scotland and the uk's transmisiac press haven't anything like what they wanted despite initial reports of victory.
Show threadValanhaDec 8

@floppyplopper @SecondUniverse Yeah, that is my understanding as well. They cry victory because Peggie *might* get some money or compensation of some kind, but the ruling pretty much said "trans women, under the EHRC and previous laws, are free to use these spaces (until complaints, then protocol/procedure)" which sets an interesting precedent because, even though we have been trying to teach the GC/transmisiacs that no, the SC EHRC ruling does not say what you think it does, they keep claiming it does. This proves that they were....well, let's just say under erroneous presumptions.

At least, so I hope/understand.

Show threadSecondUniverse (she/her/they)Dec 8
@Valanha but why would Upton need permission of any kind? It's like a green light for malicious complaints.
Show threadValanhaDec 8
@SecondUniverse Yeah, that is a fair point. I took it to mean that, until a complaint happens, there is no need for permission to be sought. Rather, the presumption is no issues at all until a complaint happens, then this silliness.
Show threadValanhaDec 8
@SecondUniverse This is also a huge win; well, comparatively speaking anyhow. Considering how wrong things have gone, this part is a big deal.
Show threadSecondUniverse (she/her/they)Dec 10
@Valanha But the argument itself is specious. Even assuming it could be proven that a minority was more likely to do crime, you couldn't take measures against the entire minority, both innocent and guilty.
Show threadValanhaDec 10
@SecondUniverse indeed, you are correct, which is why they ruled how they did. That there is no evidence of an inherent risk. So measures are only taken when a complaint is made. You are correct that this could be abused, and though imperfectly handled in this case, Peggie has been branded as a one who, essentially, lied to make this case. This has consequences for her professionally. It also means that as more try to abuse it, there will rise a razor or tool of sort to weed out these things - likely a demonstrable/measurable harm. Like the rhetoric used for single sex spaces, it always collapses when they cannot prove harm, only discomfort. Trans people are not responsible for cis folks feelings/comfort.