Mastodawn

Fossman Sep 17

@Tutanota Linux mobile is the only long term solution. I'm using #postmarketOS on a #Librem5 and all important things work for me.

#Furiphone #FLX1 and #JollaC2 can also be decent options for most people as they have Android app compatibility set up out of the box.

Donald Sep 17

@opensourceopenmind @Tutanota Why not GrapheneOS?

Fossman Sep 17

I like what Graphene is doing for security but instead of giving $$$ to Google in order to have #degoogled, I'd rather invest in improving #LinuxMobile which is a pro-freedom solution from the get-go and is not held hostage by a hostile codebase.

Perhaps this analogy will be correct: It's like moving into a less than ideal house that you can own forever versus moving into something that looks more like your dreamhouse that you don't really own.

ananas

@opensourceopenmind I'd love for Linux mobile, and especially postmarketOS to catch up, but it's been 15 years since MeeGo, and there still isn't a workable open solution where the phone handles its main task - calling people - reliably.

I see very little reason to believe this is going to change. There have been plenty of failed attempts and not much to show for it.

@ananas @opensourceopenmind I wonder what we've been doing the last half decade then (https://debconf20.debconf.org/talks/13-my-phone-runs-debian-and-it-does-phone-calls/) ? This was in 2020 and the situation became more stable and robust with more supported devices since then.…and yes, we do 📱- calls.

My phone runs Debian - and it does phone calls! - DebConf20

@agx @opensourceopenmind

I wonder that too.

The first question is, can whatever you are offering compete with a dumbphone I can buy off-the-shelf as a daily driver?

And where I can find a feature matrix for the list of hardware you support?

@ananas @agx @opensourceopenmind

Chris Vogel Sep 18

The first question is, can whatever you are offering compete with a dumbphone I can buy off-the-shelf as a daily driver?

No, it can't imho. And it shouldn't:

needs a lot less power - runs longer on battery
has a lot less complexity - could include less bugs

But the dumbphone can't compete in other aspects with smartphones in general or with a linux mobile mini computer.

And where I can find a feature matrix for the list of hardware you support?

The PostmarketOS Wiki is a good start.

Devices - postmarketOS Wiki

@me @agx @opensourceopenmind I set dumbphone as a goal, because I thought that would be a minimal set of requirements that a phone must have is in any meaningful sense to "work".

I've looked at Postmarket OS wiki, and I find it quite difficult to find any device that is "workable open solution". I am not asking for a commercial quality experience, I'm asking for something that I can reasonably daily drive *without* having an android phone at hand.

What postmarket OS wiki says is that "These are the most supported devices, maintained by at least 2 people and have the functions you expect from the device running its normal OS, such as calling on a phone, working audio, and a functional UI.

Besides QEMU devices, this is currently empty. The ports we had here earlier weren't as reliable as we would have liked. We plan to add new devices here with a higher standard."

I asked for a "workable open solution". I still don't see one existing. I wish there would be one, but if this is the alternative, I'll rather stick with my LineageOS or GrapheneOS.

Fossman Sep 18

@ananas @me @agx That wiki table (after the recent moving of Linux phones into the community category) does not give a true idea of the Librem 5's state.

Comparing my own experience with using postmarketOS on the Librem 5, I can say that unlike Android devices on that list, everything critical works on the L5 including VoLTE calls, SMS, 4G data, WiFi, etc. even the camera (except sound recording when recording video), and GPS location fix takes a while.

@ananas @agx @opensourceopenmind

Chris Vogel Sep 18

I wouldn't say it is for everybody, but I'm using my #Librem5 as my only phone since 2022. One is installed with #PureOS (the system delivered by #Purism) and one is installed with #Mobian.

I put more love into the #PureOS one up to this moment which I'm using, but I'm following the #Mobian version and #PostmarketOS on a #Pinephone with great joy: everything becomes better as time passes.

But: I said I'd quit with Android as soon as possible and made that my major goal. I even have a bank account that doesn't require android or iOS :). It might not be for everyone, but I'm having 5 kids under 12 and I have to be reachable just in case and I need the phone for my work to be reliable.

I learned a lot and put some time into bending its behaviour into what I need and it works for me.

Ati Sep 18

@me @ananas @agx @opensourceopenmind That's great news for me. I am on Lineage for now. Tinkered a little bit with Ubuntu Touch but lack of native linux apps and near lack of (actively maintained) UB Touch apps made me revert to Lineage. So, that said, do you know by chance where to get used Librem 5 in EU? Or do people still order new ones at $800? 🫣 Also would you reveal what bank you use? I can't even use my card on the internet without Gapps Android / iOS app 😮‍💨

@ati1 @ananas @agx @opensourceopenmind

Chris Vogel Sep 19

lack of [...] apps

There is no such lack, but you need to be willing to give up the apps you know from Android (or keep using part of the evil empires products by tinkering with #waydroid or #atl - android translation layer).

There are other apps to discover. I had to completely start over finding out which apps I want and which ones to use. For E-Mail e.g. I'm using a self-hosted #snappymail in #tangram, because I couldn't find any app I liked.

The only thing I'm still missing is #osmand - one of two reasons my tablet is running on #LineageOS. The other reason is that I didn't come across a good tablet hardware made for linux containing an 4G/5G modem.

Or do people still order new ones at $800?

Looking for a OpenPGPcard in FLOSS Shop I came across this offer:

https://www.floss-shop.de/de/elektronik/geraete/78/librem5-mobil-phone

This completely went by me - it's possible to order a #Librem5 in Europe?!

Also would you reveal what bank you use?

Well, I own my own bank - at least partly - a very small part of it actually. @glsbank offers to use ChipTAN.

I'm using this device as a second factor which together with the needed banking card really offers a second factor and is not just another software running on the same smartphone.

For paying online I use "Lastschrift" if not outsourced to PayPal (which I stopped using years ago), a bank transfer for smaller sums or sometimes the credit card which I have to confirm sometimes using an SMS TAN and some secret phrase. Generally I use my notebook if I do such stuff and only used my Librem5 very few times when my notebook has not been around.

It is the most secure solution beside HBCI which you could use with GLS bank also if you kindly ask them.

Librem5 - Mobil phone

Librem5 Linux Smartphone Smartphone vollständig basierend auf Free & Open Source Software - nicht Android oder iOS . Es wird vorinstalliert mit…

FLOSS Shop DE

@me @ananas @agx @opensourceopenmind @glsbank Thx for all the info. So for banking it is down to finding bank that can equip me with physical authorization token say in form of keyring instead of their proprietary app that only runs on two proproetary OSes on the planet. I think it's feasible. Gonna check 👍 For the software I only use FLOSS, well apart from paid Tutanota mail. So no such problems here. On Ubuntu Touch problem is there's literally no single functional app, say for podcasts etc.

@ati1 than it might be best to switch to postmarketos, there are plenty of apps (podcast, email, Fediverse, To-dos etc etc) :)

@MissBehave Yes I know vast Linux FLOSS library 👍 I'm using Linux on desktop I was/am surprised UT has its own separate app store and doesn't just run Linux apps installed via Flatpack I guess it was easier for them to make system work with different Android phones like that without full linux compatibility, and that #trueLinuxOnMobile approach is what makes it much harder for PostmarketOS community or Purism.. But it's the only right approach It would be shame not to use all existing Linux apps

@MissBehave And talking existing Linux apps ... I guess some may have GUI/screen resolution/aspect ratio kind of problems even on Postmarket, but most would work right? And on the hardware side I am also not ready to invest another $600-$800 in Librem 5 🫣 at the moment And that would be the only hardware that (with a little bit of tinkering) fully work under PM right? I own Pixel 3A that looks promissing on PM devices list but then ... it depends what "partially work" means for calls and audio 🤔

@ati1 i can only speak for myself, but i am daily driving the google pixel3a with #pmos since over a year and i have no problems with calls and audio. Also audio via bluetooth connected devices is working well for me (i did not try connected.microphones, though).

@MissBehave DAMN. Looks like I have a ROM flashing weekend again 🙄😁 Thanks. Can you give me more details? Can you take photos? Does GPS / turn by turn navigation work in OrganicMaps or any other?

Miss Behave Sep 20

@ati1 you should check this website: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Google_Pixel_3a_(google-sargo) GPS needs a (easy) manual intervention after each boot to work. best to check with the app "satellite" if you have a fix. I know that PureMaps can do turn-by-turn intervention and GnomeMaps can not. I do not know about othwr apps, though. Happy flashing;)

Google Pixel 3a (google-sargo) - postmarketOS Wiki

Ati Sep 20

@MissBehave Thanks. Can you tell me if you're using stable or edge? And also how fast does it feel on Sargo in comparison to Android? Is simple browsing websites doable in Firefox / LibreWolf?

Miss Behave Sep 20

@ati1 I am on stable. Since i am daily driving #linuxmobile since more than three years - first a #librem5 (to slow), than a OnePlus6T (annoying Problem with calls) and now a Pixel3a (everything ok, expect the camera:Only selfie cam works with bad quality) - i can not really compare it to android. However, browsing websites in firefox is no Problem. Its in general fast enough for me. Only the limited RAM does not allow to have like 10 Apps running at the samd time.

Ati Sep 20

@MissBehave RAM limitations are understood. Too bad front camera don't work (yet!). Hope they can reverse engineer it somehow over time. Thanks again for all that usefull 1st hand info 👍

Fossman Sep 20

@ati1 Can #flatpaks from #flathub run on #UbuntuTouch? In my experience, #Kasts by KDE works amazingly for pocasts.

Ati Sep 26

@opensourceopenmind No flatpacks doesn't run on UB Touch. At least not "natively" / i couldn't make em work 6 month ago when I was trying UT. And yes - i know Kasts, I use that app on my desktop Ubuntu and now on PostmarketOS. It works great. 👍

Bhante Subharo ☸️Sep 20

@me @ati1 @ananas @agx @opensourceopenmind @glsbank "network effects" are very, very hard to escape

@ati1 @me @ananas @agx @opensourceopenmind My Bank is a local "Sparkasse" (communal german Bank) which also offers Online-Services via Browser in combination with a "Tan-Generator": https://www.sparkassen-shop.de/home/content/241/

SparkassenShop TAN-Generatoren·Startseite · Sparkasse · Shop · Beratung · Service

Sebastian "spaetz" Spaeth Sep 19

@me @ananas @agx @opensourceopenmind that is impressive, I am using mine for about 50% of the time. Out of curiosity: which bank is that? A bank which does not require 'an app' is pretty rare.

@ananas @me @agx @opensourceopenmind As long as you do not need a good camera, a google pixel3a with #postmarketos and #phosh might be for you. I daily drive it since more than a year: Calling, SMS, Mobile Data etc. is reliable and stable. Checking Emails, Browsing and GPS etc. is no Problem. The battery last more from morning to evening with middleweight use i would say.

Ati Sep 24

@MissBehave @ananas @me @agx @opensourceopenmind So I say hello again from PostmarketOS/Phosh equiped Pixel 3A 😎️ Seems to work pretty well indeed. Although I still have to do some configuration. Like my newly flashed system seems to have no ringtones / notification sounds at all. Do you have to download some sounds yourself cos copytights etc🤨️ Also osm scout for Pure Maps don't seem to work for finding adresses. But those are small things I'm gonna figure out. And work done on PMos is impressive

Guido Günther Sep 24

@ati1 @MissBehave @ananas @me @opensourceopenmind Ringtones etc are in the sound-theme-phosh / sound-theme-feedbackd and are provided via feedbackd. You can check with `fbcli`.

@agx @MissBehave @ananas @me @opensourceopenmind I can see feedback settings like sounds for instant messages / calls / sms in gui apps like mobile settings or tweaks ... but there are no default sounds attached to them. I can click on a folder pictogram and choose sound from phone memory but there is no default sounds folder. So I guess I have to download some sound files in apropriate format... I get no sound now for notifications that work otherways (pop up), only haptic feedback.

Guido Günther Sep 25

@ati1 @MissBehave @ananas @me @opensourceopenmind If the fields in the settings app is empty then the default sounds from the sound them are used. That's why you have the small `x` behind the button so you can reset to the default. See what I wrote above for on how to debug this (assuming sound works otherwise fine on your device).

(if you use both the tweaks app and mobile-settings then you can mess up the settings). For phosh use only the mobile settings app.

@agx @MissBehave @ananas @me @opensourceopenmind I can't make it work. Maybe it doesn't work with events other than a call / sms / alarm ? I have no sim in my phone and currently try to make it work with Delta Chat app notifications that seem to work (banner shows up at notifications bar when I get the message but no sound). My mobile settings look like on the screenshot. also tried fbcli -P phosh in terminal with "set feedback to phosh / current feedback profile is phosh" Still no sound 🙄️

Guido Günther Sep 25

@ati1 @MissBehave @ananas @me @opensourceopenmind It works for all kinds of events, we're using this on a daily basis since years 😃 .
This is really on your device. That's why I recom. to debug with fbcli to see if other events work and asked if sound works at all on your device (e.g. a music player). Did you try to remove the config you created via tweaks?

Note that received notifications without any category don't play a sound by default. See https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/agx/feedbackd#how-it-works

Guido Günther / feedbackd · GitLab

A daemon to provide haptic, led and audio feedback triggered by application events

GitLab

@agx @MissBehave @ananas @me @opensourceopenmind Thanks a lot. I'm gonna read / learn how to use that tool to debug this. It might be that DeltaChat notification event has no category and thus play no sound. I'm not good at linux debugging, just trying to learn sth right now as I go. And yes sounds on my system seem to work flawlesly both on built in speakers and on bluetooth devices (apart from those notifications). And I am generally amazed that I have a working Linux system on my phone 🤟️👍️

Guido Günther Sep 25

@ati1 @MissBehave @ananas @me @opensourceopenmind Ringtones have sound by default though but maybe your sound theme is messed up. Something like

fbcli -E message-new-cellbroadcast

should play something unless the sound theme is really off.

@agx @MissBehave @ananas @me @opensourceopenmind yes it plays three loud beeps. and fbcli alone plays incoming call.

Guido Günther Sep 26

@ati1 @MissBehave @ananas @me @opensourceopenmind 👍 Apps like calls and chatty should emit the right sounds then and delta chat needs fixing.

Ati Sep 26

@agx @MissBehave @ananas @me @opensourceopenmind Ok. I have noticed i do get a click sound for incoming message when my screen is on, and I am on a DeltaChat talking to that exact person that sent this message. No banner in this case but a sound. When I am on another app, talk with different person on Delta, or my screen is locked - then incoming Delta message displays a banner in notifications, with haptic, but no sound. So it looks like there's no sound connected with notification banner event

Guido Günther Sep 26

@ati1 @MissBehave @ananas @me @opensourceopenmind Yes, that's what I said above: Notifications without a category don't emit a sound by default. It's a bug when a chat application doesn't set the `im.received` category on their notifications (which would give you the `message-new-instant` sound): `fbcli -E message-new-instant`. You can either fix the app or work around it in your feedback theme. (If the app devs don't know there'll likely never be a fix)

Ati Sep 26

@agx @MissBehave @ananas @me @opensourceopenmind Ok then, fbcli -E message-new-instant run in terminal works and gives a nice, loud sound. So it seems DeltaChat notifications doesn't have im.received set. But then no other app notifications make any sound in my system. I also receive Tuba app banners whenever i get notification from Mastodon and they are mute also. Is there a way to fix/change this?

Guido Günther Sep 26

@ati1 @MissBehave @ananas @me @opensourceopenmind As I said: adjust the feedback theme. Notificatoins without any category shouldn't make any sound as that would be too noisy and it's also an incentive to equip the apps with the right categories.

Ati Oct 1

@agx @MissBehave @ananas @me @opensourceopenmind Can you reccomend me some knowledge sources where I could learn about Linux environmental variables / how to add json file to them / how to make that file / how to check and identify specific app events etc? Would like to learn that stuff from ground up as currently I don't know what I'm doing 😅️ Making any notification banner that shows up in sys notifications bar also produce sound would be a great 1st fix for me. Thanks in advance for any help.

Ati Oct 1

@MissBehave @ananas @me @agx @opensourceopenmind I'm having a lot of fun here with #postmarketos on #Pixel3a Especially after putting a sim card in, and discovering that NOT using WiFi kind of advances whole system from "experimental" to "seems perfectly stable" 👍️🙂️ Bluetooth works perfectly, GPS is really quick to get fix even with no a-gps. Calls, sms 👍️ Next I'm gonna customise notifications sounds and learn sth on the way. Everything looks good and promissing. Thx again for recommendation.

@ananas @opensourceopenmind We have a quiet conservative feature matrix for some devices here: https://phosh.mobi/about/features/ (conservative in the sense that things usually work better than stated)

Supported Features

Phosh Feaures on different devices

Phosh

@agx @opensourceopenmind

Looking at that matrix, I don't really count those as "workable open solutions" yet, but I'll bookmark the page and keep hoping. The moment I can ditch my LineageOS phone for Linux one, I'm well interested in doing it.

And to be clear: I'm not trying to downplay your efforts. I very much appreciate people working on Linux mobile. I just don't think it will be usable in quite a while. From my point of view that would require that somebody decides to provide a lot of funding for it, which unfortunately seems very unlikely.

I hoped EU would've done something with all things going on with the US, but alas, that didn't seem to happen.

@ananas @opensourceopenmind

> I just don't think it will be usable in quite a while.

That's a firm opinion when only looking at wikis 😃

@agx @opensourceopenmind

It might be. But I am not rich enough to spend hundreds of euros to buy a device that might end up a silicon paperweight for all I know. Wikis, random webpages and Pine64 community are pretty much everything I can reasonably follow.

I'd be glad to be proven wrong though.

@ananas @opensourceopenmind Maybe not buy but try first, next opportunity at e.g. https://ev.phosh.mobi/blog/linuxday-2025/ , there was also a @postmarketOS booth at @FrOSCon .

LinuxDay Dornbirn 2025

frox Sep 20

@ananas @agx @opensourceopenmind more like 50-100 € for a secondhand device on the pmOS community devices.
If it doesn't cut it as a daily driver, it can always be creatively repurposed: server, signage, webcam or many other possibilities