Mastodawn

Apple and Google both provide support for offline speech-to-text using local models. Users can configure it to be fully offline.

The Murena Voice to Text service in /e/OS sends the user's audio to OpenAI which is hidden away in their terms of service:

https://community.e.foundation/t/voice-to-text-feature-using-open-ai/70509

Voice to Text feature using Open AI

Thank you a lot for your positive and supporting comments about our new /e/OS Voice-to-text! Regarding its implementation in /e/OS, I’d like to explain a few things to explain why we have chosen an OpenAI STT API to implement it and how it’s going to evolve in the future: What we have learned from our experimentations with STT models that run locally on the smartphone for speech recognition: they work quite poorly, they make a lot of mistakes in voice recognition they are not able to mix la...

/e/OS community

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

/e/OS is heavily marketed as private but in reality it has enormous privacy issues like this with their default apps and services. It's also heavily marketed as avoiding Google services but yet has privileged integration for Google services and connects to multiple by default.

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

/e/OS doesn't keep up with basic privacy or security patches for the OS or browser engine used not only for the default browser but also the WebView used by many apps including email clients and far more for rendering web-based content. For more info see https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-standard-privacysecurity-patches-and-protections-arent-private.

Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum

GrapheneOS discussion forum

GrapheneOS Discussion Forum

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

/e/OS is not a threat to mass surveillance but rather significantly helps with it by making exploiting devices to extract data or take remote control over them far easier. They do not keep up with basic High and Critical severity patches. All devices sold by Murena are insecure.

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

Even on Pixels, /e/OS is extremely far behind on providing the current High and Critical severity privacy and security patches due to being so far behind on OS updates. They mislead users by setting a fake security patch level and changing the UI to mask what's happening.

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

Murena is a for-profit company and /e/OS is very clearly built and managed for the benefit of Murena. Despite this, /e/OS receives a huge amount of EU government funding. If you're an EU taxpayer, your money is being used to build this extraordinarily insecure and non-private OS.

s94 Jul 19, 2025

@GrapheneOS false !

s94 Jul 19, 2025

@GrapheneOS please consider murena with respect. But your rom is interesting too. /e/OS has Advanced Privacy, a unique app to manage app tracking.

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

@s94 /e/OS is an extraordinarily insecure and non-private OS. The feature you're talking about heavily misrepresents what it does and doesn't prevent app tracking as it claims. What they provide is a poor implementation of DNS-based filtering to block connections not required for apps to function. The vast majority of privacy invasive behavior is left intact. It's also trivial for apps to fully bypass it for anything they want to do, and many apps do bypass it already.

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

@s94 /e/OS is receiving millions of dollars in EU government funding. /e/OS is built and managed for the benefit of Murena, a for-profit company. /e/OS has the same leadership as Murena. What about this do you think is false?

s94 Jul 19, 2025

@GrapheneOS Murena allows Ungoogled Android and open source to be democratized and accessible for everyone. It's maybe not perfect, but they have good intention and you can't disrespect them like that.

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

@s94 No, Murena is scamming people at a large scale for profit. They're pretending to provide a private OS which is in reality not at all private. We've explained how it lacks the most basic privacy and security. It even sends sensitive user data to OpenAI without informing users, which is far worse than how Apple and Google are handling speech-to-text from a privacy perspective.

Contrary to their marketing, it gives extensive privileged access to Google services and always connects to them.

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

@s94 Murena do not have good intentions. They're a for-profit company selling people fake privacy products and services. What they care about is money. They've set things up in a way that they can get a bunch of government funding to build the product as if it's a non-profit in order to sell that from their for-profit company.

What they're providing is much worse than people simply using an iPhone. It's worse than using stock Android on a device receiving monthly backports or OS updates...

richarddebruin Jul 19, 2025

@GrapheneOS Euh ... Grapheneos you put put a shame on yourself reaction like this. There is /e/Os, calyxos, lineageos, etc. Everybody can choose for themself. Thuis looks a bit like the Linux distro war. Thatcher distro better, that distro gets money. Focus on yourself and stop creating posts like this. It will not bring you a step further and it is just negative energy.

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

@richarddebruin We're providing accurate information in response to /e/OS spending years spreading misinformation to mislead people about GrapheneOS. Other groups have done that too. This has caused substantial harm to our project and our team. In particular, the fabricated stories about our team and personal attacks such as baselessly claiming our founder is crazy and delusional have heavily contributed to harassment. The founder of /e/OS and Murena has directly participated in that too.

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

@richarddebruin We've responded to GrapheneOS and our team being heavily lied about with accurate and verifiable information. Many people have been helped and steered away from using highly insecure and non-private products because of what we've posted. There are many responses saying so. What we posted improved privacy and security for people who are now going to make a better choice. Not everyone realizes that those operating systems reduce rather than improving privacy and security.

deFraid Jul 19, 2025

@GrapheneOS @richarddebruin motherfucker your OS only run on google pixel devices and you're punching down those who supports fairphone and many others ? REALLY ? You élitist bitch, did you audit the SOCs on pixel devices? You'd better

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

@defred @richarddebruin /e/OS and Murena are scammers causing substantial harm to people through selling them extraordinarily insecure and non-private devices. It's a blatant grift for profit, not a serious attempt to provide people with better privacy or security. They do the opposite of that.

We currently support every device meeting the very reasonable requirements listed at https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices. The purpose of GrapheneOS is providing people with privacy, not scamming them like /e/OS.

GrapheneOS Frequently Asked Questions

Answers to frequently asked questions about GrapheneOS.

GrapheneOS

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

@defred @richarddebruin We're not willing to have insecure devices unable to protect people's privacy and security in order to expand usage share of GrapheneOS and get more donations. Instead, we're working with an OEM to have their devices meeting our requirements. Broad device support is directly counter to providing privacy and security. Selling devices not being provided with basic privacy and security patches including end-of-life devices as a privacy product is blatantly scamming them.

deFraid Jul 19, 2025

@GrapheneOS @richarddebruin yet you can't guarantee that either.

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

@defred @richarddebruin /e/OS does not provide basic Android and Chromium privacy/security patches without huge delays while misleading users about it. They outright fail to ship huge portions of the patches for many months or even years. They substantially roll back the standard privacy/security model and features too. They aren't doing the bare minimum to protect user privacy and security. They're streaming's people microphone audio to OpenAI without telling them beyond a Terms of Use...

imnobody Jul 19, 2025

@defred @GrapheneOS @richarddebruin “lets be afraid about a backdoor in the Hardware of Pixels with no evidence supporting that claim other than FUD and prefer the phone with an open frontdoor, no roof and smashed windows”🙄😭

deFraid Jul 19, 2025

@imnobody @GrapheneOS @richarddebruin FUD ? google, just sayin', wait and see...

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

@defred @imnobody @richarddebruin /e/OS is streaming user's microphone audio to OpenAI without telling them when they use speech-to-text. Meanwhile, Apple and Google at least support doing it locally.

/e/OS is misleading users about the many missing privacy and security patches including setting a false Android security patch level and changing the user interface to downplay it. What's that if not having backdoors?

/e/OS has repeatedly covered up their security weaknesses and vulnerabilities.

User Jul 19, 2025

@imnobody @GrapheneOS @richarddebruin @defred exactly

richarddebruin Jul 19, 2025

@GrapheneOS but still then. Be wiser. Be smarter. This is led to nowhere.

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

@richarddebruin It leads to /e/OS and Murena having less ability to mislead people since a far greater number of people will realize they're scammers. It protects us against their attacks. A few people getting annoyed with us on Mastodon (no one on Bluesky or X) compared to most people reading it supporting it doesn't really mean much.

How many people knew /e/OS sends user voice data to OpenAI for speech-to-text and that both Apple and Google have offline support for it available?

Gaunter de Meuré Jul 21, 2025

@GrapheneOS @richarddebruin I didn't. I'm just discovering it now.
I was on the verge to buy a murena phone, studied the subject and learned that e/os is not at all a secure os.

Gaunter de Meuré Jul 21, 2025

@GrapheneOS @richarddebruin I opted for Graphene instead which is a reliable os.

GrapheneOS Jul 21, 2025

@LordPatraxX @richarddebruin The major issue we have with those products is that people would have dramatically better privacy and security getting an iPhone than an /e/OS device. iPhones provide strong security and privacy from apps/services. They aren't fantastic at privacy from Apple, but Apple services are more private than the /e/OS ones. We gave a clear example of Apple doing local processing for speech-to-text as the norm while /e/OS quietly sends it to OpenAI without telling users.

GrapheneOS Jul 21, 2025

@LordPatraxX @richarddebruin Apple has an Advanced Data Protection mode for iCloud where it uses end-to-end encryption for nearly everything. Users can handle syncing contacts and calendars with another service like Proton. Apple is a whole lot closer to providing full E2EE for those services than Murena, and Murena's services are very lacking in many aspects of basic privacy / security.

iPhones are mainstream, so devices with atrocious privacy and security compared to them are hardly progress.

Monew Jul 21, 2025

@richarddebruin @GrapheneOS it is not a distro war e/os is a downgrade in both privacy and security from most stock android experiences. They have thrown sponsorship money for years at YouTubers to shill their product and fool the masses. If you were a privacy and security advocate you would never promote their products and would call out their BS marketing

s94 Jul 19, 2025

@GrapheneOS OK so explain me how /e/OS is always connected to Google? (I am ready to change my ROM if you arrive to change my mind)

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

@s94 See the third party comparison at https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm. It has a section covering the default Android Open Source Project connections. /e/OS leaves several still connecting to Google services. In addition to that, /e/OS has microG enabled by default and making additional Google connections beyond the ones in AOSP. /e/OS also adds an additional Google connection for carrier configuration not performed by AOSP which is covered at https://www.kuketz-blog.de/e-datenschutzfreundlich-bedeutet-nicht-zwangslaeufig-sicher-custom-roms-teil6/.

Comparison of Android-based Operating Systems

Comparison of Android-based Operating Systems

milkytwix Jul 19, 2025

@GrapheneOS Could you just stop talking about other OSes and focus on gOS please? This is waste of your time, Daniel.

AcidePoulain Jul 19, 2025

@milkytwix @GrapheneOS

I disagree. I am an /e/OS user and investor, and think they do not take security seriously enough.

Someone has to talk about it.

milkytwix Jul 19, 2025

@AcidePoulain @GrapheneOS Talk to them. Here it does not matter and distracts from what Daniel should focus on. There is a huge difference between talking to someone and talking about someone.

AcidePoulain Jul 19, 2025

I do not think talking to them is sufficient. I will never be taken seriously enough, especially compared to experts on the matter.

milkytwix Jul 19, 2025

@AcidePoulain Then maybe eOS is the wrong thing to use. But talking about them - especially if you are someone who they are biased against - will not bring any positive change. Quite the contrary. Waste of energy and time.

matchboxbananasynergy Jul 19, 2025

@milkytwix @AcidePoulain We know that /e/OS doesn't plan to change. We're not the first to criticize them (and not the first they've attacked as a result). It is clear to us that making quality products that have substance behind their marketing is not what they're after producing.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't educate and warn people, though. It is not clear why you have an issue with that.

matchboxbananasynergy Jul 19, 2025

@AcidePoulain @milkytwix When /e/OS users on their own forum criticize /e/OS for its many issues, their strategy has become to start insinuating that we're sending people there to criticize their OS, so yes, you wouldn't be taken seriously.

https://community.e.foundation/t/voice-to-text-feature-using-open-ai/70509/28

>So either those people are coming from people in ordered service from the toxic community we know too well.

They are unable to respond to criticism, so they'd rather lie and say that we're brigading their forum while calling our community toxic and our project members crazy/delusional. It's quite sad.

Voice to Text feature using Open AI

True, while I don’t assume that they would send snippets without active usage, it should still have been clearly communicated. The “VTT as a premium user feature” hint I couldn’t find (searched again for it today) on the website, as well - only in the GitLab changelogs. But even there’s no mentioning of which service provider cooperates regarding VTT. That aspect is only clearly visible in the terms of service from what I saw. Could be that it is hidden somewhere else on the website, but a cl...

/e/OS community

Drifthood Jul 19, 2025

@AcidePoulain @milkytwix hallo,

me too use /e/ since a coupple of years, works well, really no problems at all
ad free environment

i am interested in learning more about the problematic aspects, can you fill me in or point me somewhere

matchboxbananasynergy Jul 19, 2025

@drifthood @AcidePoulain @milkytwix Here are some links. The first is up-to-date, the others are more historical, and were compiled by the developer of the now-defunct DivestOS:

https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

issues with /e/OS: https://codeberg.org/divested-mobile/divestos-website/raw/commit/c7447de50bc8fadd20a30d4cbf1dcd8cf14805a0/static/misc/e.txt

asb update history: https://web.archive.org/web/20241231003546/https://divestos.org/pages/patch_history

chromium update history: https://web.archive.org/web/20250119212018/https://divestos.org/misc/ch-dates.txt

chromium update summary: https://infosec.exchange/@divested/112

Comparison of Android-based Operating Systems

Comparison of Android-based Operating Systems

Drifthood Jul 19, 2025

@matchboxbananasynergy @AcidePoulain @milkytwix am i worse of with /e/ than with standard android?

matchboxbananasynergy Jul 19, 2025

@drifthood @AcidePoulain @milkytwix In the vast majority of cases, yes, especially if your device is still receiving updates. /e/OS is very frequently very late in providing security patches. That's before you factor in other issues with the OS itself. Timely patches are the bare minimum.

matchboxbananasynergy Jul 19, 2025

@milkytwix @GrapheneOS Replying to inaccurate information and attacks on GrapheneOS is very relevant to GrapheneOS. We talked about /e/OS the other day by responding to an iFixIt article misrepresenting GrapheneOS as part of promoting Fairphone and /e/OS. Gael Duval responded by attacking project members and deflecting our accurate criticism, again. We are focusing on GrapheneOS and are constantly making strides - pointing out and providing information about misrepresentations about other devices or OSes meant to market them doesn't detract from that.

P.S. Responding to a shared project account with a first name is inappropriate and you're just feeding into the narrative that people like Gael are using to deflect accurate criticism of the products they charge people money for.

milkytwix Jul 19, 2025

@matchboxbananasynergy @GrapheneOS Okay, now I am feeding. Understood, next up are again threads towards me, and I will get blocked. Understood, go on with your "defense"... Just sad.

matchboxbananasynergy Jul 19, 2025

@milkytwix @GrapheneOS You came to a thread providing accurate information about /e/OS that we think people are interested in. You've already had a reply to you from someone who says they actively use /e/OS themselves who says they appreciate it. Obviously, people are not aware of these issues and find our posts to be valuable.

If you don't, that's okay too. We'll publish them for those who do, and we'll keep responding to attacks on GrapheneOS.

Tuxicoman Jul 19, 2025

@milkytwix @GrapheneOS

At some point companies bullshit should be made public. This is what #grapheneos is doing.

I'm french, I used Mandrake. But when Gael makes advertisement for his /e/ project telling it's not Android and other bullshit. I'm not happy. I loose trust.

We had Qwant bullshit and /e/ is on the same road.
They have to reach a critical mass to exist. I feel Tesla is their marketing model.

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

@tuxicoman @milkytwix

> I feel Tesla is their marketing model.

https://web-cdn.bsky.app/profile/gaelduval.bsky.social/post/3llgfyculnc2e

Gaël Duval 🐧💻📱 (@gaelduval.bsky.social)

Redemption

Bluesky Social

aeris Jul 19, 2025

@tuxicoman @milkytwix @GrapheneOS And expect another privacy bullshit in 2025 i guess/hope…

Okuna Jul 19, 2025

@GrapheneOS
The answer by Gael to all the comments is interesting:
"What we have learned from our experimentations with STT models that run locally on the smartphone for speech recognition:
they work quite poorly, they make a lot of mistakes in voice recognition"
Nope. I use futo And it works really great in most cases

"they are not able to mix languages (i.e. you have to preset one language before use and parts of what you say that is not in this language - that happens all the time - are not recognized)"

Nope. The version I use distinguishes, the text has to be long enough though.

"they take a huge amount of memory to run (in the magnitude of hundreds of MB) + CPU overhead"

Didn't notice this.
So all the reasons he gives a crap

Just a trash panda 🦝Jul 19, 2025

@Okuna And FUTO Voice is really just whisper.cpp under the hood. They have no excuses.

Okuna Jul 19, 2025

@GrapheneOS and one more what Gael said:
"The proxy source code is under cleaning and will be published soon."
How often have I read or heard this and then it didn't happen for various reasons.
And I wonder how you can anonymize my voice.

Marcial 🇨🇷🇻🇪Jul 19, 2025

@GrapheneOS Y’all have been uploading some pretty precise and important posts as of late, but I feel like their visibility is hindered by being on the general discussion forums (even if there’s an announcements subsection). Have y’all considered using a dedicated blog for some of these larger reports, to centralize these announcements someplace uncluttered by other conversations? It helps give visibility to other projects, from what I’ve seen.

Till Kleisli Jul 19, 2025

@GrapheneOS I'm not even intrested in explanations, when @murena claims to sell de-googled and pro-privacy phones, while sending data to OpenAI, how can the be trusted in anything else? I mean, at least use something else than fucking OpenAI!

GrapheneOS Jul 19, 2025

@kleisli /e/OS has privileged integration for Google services and uses multiple Google services by default. They don't keep up with basic privacy and security patches along with setting a fake Android security patch level and changing the user interface to downplay the severe lack of privacy and security. It's an extraordinarily insecure and non-private OS. /e/OS substantially reduces privacy and security. This is an example of a way it's significantly worse than just using the stock OS.

Till Kleisli Jul 19, 2025

@GrapheneOS I was actially thinking about getting my next @Fairphone from @murena but I guess I have to degoogle it myself, unless fairphone starts to give OS options... 😊

@kleisli
My FP4 came with /e/OS and I hated it... I couldn't get it to work right and support was absolutely worthless until they eventually quasi-admitted that many of the published features of the OS were basically their hope for the future. I finally installed LineageOS and I've been incredibly happy. Even with Gapps installed I've been finding many things that airgap me from Google while e/OS/ seemed to force me to integrate more just to make things work.
@GrapheneOS @Fairphone @murena

oxidand Jul 19, 2025

/e/OS has always been strange. Not intentionally bad, but somewhat incompetent. From the beginning is was leaking data to one big tech service or another. Yet it's always being advertised as a #privacy option.

tootbrute Jul 19, 2025

@GrapheneOS trying out this whisper based one today on F-Droid. Pretty good. Not sending to openai AFAIK

https://f-droid.org/packages/org.woheller69.whisperplus

Whisper+ | F-Droid - Free and Open Source Android App Repository

Voice recognition based on Whisper