Not Just Bikes 🇳🇱I'm so glad this shit is not legal in the EU.
Car manufactures should not be able to release unsafe cars to the public and hide behind "it's just a beta, bro" excuses.
Kevin Karhan 
@notjustbikes nodds in agreement the only "self driving test area" I'm aware of is the righ highway of Munich and even that still requires a licensed driver behind the wheels who will be liable.
Ollie 🇪🇺🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🇵🇸🇺🇦@notjustbikes Move fast, kill children... that's the maxim, right? 
Maki 🔻@notjustbikes And yet the damn swastikkkars are driving around here as well. I really just want them to be bumped out of the market. And all the SUVs as well. They're not safe.
DJGummikuh@RandamuMaki @notjustbikes however, afaik autonomous driving is not enabled in europe. This setup is clearly a validation test (which failed). I wonder what the reason behind this is, since selfdriving is active in the US.
@DJGummikuh @notjustbikes From the article: "The tests were setup by anti-Tesla organizations who repeated the drive-by trial eight times."
@RandamuMaki @notjustbikes hm. yeah ok "Anti-Tesla organizations" says it all, though. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm ABSOLUTELY no Tesla Fanboy, but a lot of shit is currently piled on that company by vultures who sense a weakness in Tesla. Now founded or not is beside the point, these actions are presumably not there to raise awareness of shortcomings but to smear the company in favor of its competition.
@DJGummikuh @notjustbikes If the tests are done using the scientific method, and repeating it eight times would suggest they at least put that kind of effort in it to avoid false positives, then it shouldn't matter who is behind them. The results speak for themselves.
@RandamuMaki @notjustbikes granted but I still remember the Mark Rober video that compared the camera-based autopilot of tesla vs the LIDAR based one of one competitor. The whole thing was essentially a sales pitch that was carefully crafted to make Tesla look bad. Don't underestimate the power of propaganda and this whole setup feels a lot like that.
@DJGummikuh @notjustbikes Listen, Mark Rober supports Next for Autism, which is pushing ABA treatment which is widely regarded as torture by autistic people. I'm not too sure about the man. But if done in a scientific setting the results can't be ignored just because of that. It might be that Tesla could use better technology and their competitor's LIDAR might be a better system. I don't know. I'm just saying that eight failed tests where human-shaped dolls are hit by a car is too much.
WesDym@RandamuMaki I come from a family of scientists, and I'm willing to accept the claims of thousands of Tesla's expert critics from all over the world whom I assume DO know, and almost to a head say that Tesla's tech is inadequate and can never be made to work until they change it.
@DJGummikuh If scientific principles were followed, then motive becomes irrelevant, no matter who the results go for or against. Obviously, suspicion of intent must be a factor of evaluation of method and results. But they cannot invalidate properly done experiments. Even a hateful asshole with malice in their heart can still be in the right. It's up to others to discern that. But that fact by itself doesn't prove them wrong.
Based on what we know, nothing Tesla says should be believed.
Hakan Bayındır@DJGummikuh @RandamuMaki @notjustbikes
Everybody except Tesla has a couple of radars on board, though. Having compact LIDARs are good, too.
To recap, only Tesla says "8 cameras are good enough", and no other car manufacturer buys that argument.
I personally don't find Tesla safe enough, so they are off my buying list until they add redundant alternative sensors.
@bayindirh @RandamuMaki @notjustbikes in all fairness, humans also only have visual sensors and no LIDAR. I get that more sensors = more better, however I fail to see any situation that technically can only be resolved worse by an autopilot than a human pilot with only visual input and without additional sensors (which is what we must compare it against).
@DJGummikuh @RandamuMaki @notjustbikes
RADAR is not affected by low-visibility scenarios like heavy rain, snow and fog. LIDAR loses some effectiveness, but better than cameras.
In place where I live, I'd rather have the protection RADAR provides due to weather conditions. The main road I drive has E-W direction and drive against the sun twice a day, plus weather is harsh in winters.
In short, if I have RADAR in my car, I'm in a way safer state due to emergency braking capabilities it enables.
@DJGummikuh @RandamuMaki @notjustbikes
I forgot to add: Cameras have way worse dynamic range when compared to human eyes, so cameras are not reasonable substitutes to human eyes, even if you can install more of them to cover a larger FoV. Plus, human peripheral vision has a larger FoV then we pay attention.
derptron@DJGummikuh @RandamuMaki @notjustbikes It's an ad hominem. Just look at the evidence. Don't fall for that crap.
@DJGummikuh Well, the term is probably misused. Tesla and their supporters will obviously apply this term to anyone who challenges them on anything. Telling the truth upsets them. But we have little choice, because they're not trustworthy. This is literally life-or-death stuff, and there must be those willing to find and report the truth.
@RandamuMaki Yep. Because it's now widely known that Tesla's own claims cannot be trusted.
@DJGummikuh SDVs have LIMITED license in SOME parts of the US, but not most of it. Specifics vary by jurisdiction. But very little of the US allows anything like Waymo cabs. Driving ASSISTANCE is allowed much more widely, and Tesla falls into that range; drivers must be present and alert, and are liable for the car's failures.
@wesdym yeah the assistance is similar in europe. Though that does cause the car to speed up next to a school bus and run over kids :D
Darwin Woodkaand don't get us started on how bad the trucks are
I had a neighbor whose SUV got hit a few years ago IN FRONT OF HER HOUSE and the bumper just fell apart. it was styrofoam inside.
Shanie MyrsTear@darwinwoodka That's the point of a bumper though - a part that absorbs an impact and is replaceable for as little as possible.
Now if only the SUVs and trucks had a bumper that was scaled to regular vehicle heights by law...
Passwordsarehard4@shanie @darwinwoodka and lights in a standardized place and intensity.
@darwinwoodka Modern bumpers are meant to absorb impact energy, and EPS does that very well. Older bumpers merely passed the energy on to the frame and vehicle, including occupants.
JackPearse@notjustbikes Greetings to Friedrich #Merz.
#Vorsorgeprinzip bleibt!
Iker@notjustbikes Yet the EU towed the line on tariffs on imported Chinese cars and solar panels. Given how easily they've caved to Trump's demands on taxes on USA multinationals and military spending, I have little hope this will continue to be the case for much longer.
@notjustbikes The Dawn Project has allegedly falsified these FSD tests in the past - I wouldn't be surprised if this one is made up as well.
Saying this, I would much rather have good public transit than robot cars.
(edit: Changed from “literally” to “allegedly” as video and lack of on-board data is unreliable)
bewilderbeast23@shanie @notjustbikes Do you have evidence of the falsification? Pls post it if you do. If you don't, pls say so. (and check original source of both)
@bewilderbeast23 I don’t have access to CAN bus data where people accuse TDP of gas pressing on some tests, but:
- TDP founder is CEO of Green Hills Software, an Autopilot competitor
- He self-presents as the “world’s leading expert in creating software that never fails and can’t be hacked” which is a high bar.
- Really crazy Tesla fanboys have used actual kids in similar tests to TDP w/ differing results (thank goodness). YT removed those videos.
@bewilderbeast23 I’m not saying TDP is inherently making *this one* up, but there is a large financial incentive for TDP to release the analyses even if they’re doctored.
Much more interested in a group that doesn’t have a self-serving interest in their own self driving solution to do these tests.
I also still believe that, if cars are needed, using an assistance program like a self driving package supporting the driver, there is less likelihood of a car on pedestrian event.
@shanie Agree, BUT we should insist they name it honestly: Eg: "Pedestrian Detection Assistance" would mean the driver is *assisted* by a device that never looks away, never spills coffee on its lap, never texts on its phone. That would be really helpful. And honest. But of course they all want to say, "our software does it all, humans not needed."
LevkaThe weekly picket/demo at the San Francisco Tesla dealership was slightly smaller than usual but a *lot* more passing cars honked in approval. It was *very* loud.
My favorites were the passing Fire Dept. truck and the EMTs in their ambulance.
We're winning on the Musk front. Keep up the pressure.
Have you ever bipped a #Tesla? Just wondering. Not trying to incite any crimes. Never commit crimes. You might get in trouble, especially if you're stupid enough to do it i front of a camera.
TobiWanKenobiI'd be even more glad if we could flag all US-American tech corporations as illegal in the EU.
Andreas K@notjustbikes Actually, there is.
It's singleton registration, basically without registering a type of car.
Because you are "officially" only registering a singleton, in practice the rules governing these are much more lax. Obviously any tests that would require to destroy parts or the complete car are by definition out.
It's the traditional way how American cars are imported into the EU for fans of these.
We literally have in our garage a Dodge RAM truck parked that is a) way to big
for the space, a good part of the hood protrudes out of the parking space and b) obviously not sold in Europe.
So obviously the owner or a specialised company bought the thing in the US, shipped it over, did the minimal changes necessary to make it meet the requirements for registrations (which are not the same as for registering a car type), and now one of our neighbours rides around in American style civilian tank (which is still relatively unsafe for its weight).
Harm
De black box van Tesla - Zembla - BNNVARA
Elon Musk hoopt dit jaar nog goedkeuring te krijgen voor de Europese introductie van Full Self Driving, een systeem dat nog een stap verder gaat in autonoom rijden. Zembla onderzoekt: hoe kan het dat Tesla en zijn Autopilot al jaren in verband worden gebracht met ongelukken? En welke rol speelde ...
April (@39c3) The Pink ⋆☾╶⃝⃤☽⋆ [AS208709]@notjustbikes early access is late stage capitalisms answer to good stuff costing too much money :3
time for revolution uwu?
time for revolution uwu?
@notjustbikes This cannot be said enough:
Tesla DOES NOT HAVE anything that could be accurately called 'full' self-driving, and probably NEVER WILL.
They have locked themselves into a tech regime that makes it literally impossible for them. Their self-enforced limitations, driven by their owner's ignorant arrogance, makes this irresolvable, for as long as this regime endures. And his ego will probably never let him change it.
As long as Elmo remains in charge, this goal is impossible.
Raven Luni@notjustbikes It kind of is (in the UK anyway). I hired a car for a trip last year and it was packed with ai crap that you had to turn off every time you started the engine. It actually tried to pull me into the path of some people walking along the side of the road because all it cared about was the centre line.
@notjustbikes The car in question was a Skoda Octavia
⚯ Michel de Cryptadamus ⚯@notjustbikes tbf it's not legal in most of the united states either, but #texas isn't going to let that stop them
賢進ジェンナ@notjustbikes So this why Elon's so obsessed woth fathering children... gotta make up for the Tesla slaughters!