Dr. Cat Hicks@sandorspruit WOW omg. Good for her
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myth-making!!!!! You can't cite one flimsy poor study for an enormous ability and achievement prediction claim!!
Something I want to get across at some point, in some way, is that we can have more scientific approaches than constructing an "average" that doesn't really exist, and often isn't truly isn't useful for highly variable, idiographic, and complex outcomes in the world
Like we can dispute whether there ARE meaningful group differences that emerge in the average over time (itself highly disputable for many stereotypes), but we can ALSO think about how this entire APPROACH might not be meaningful for our question(s)
Graydon@grimalkina Computer science concerns things people built, not nature. (Abstract math might be computer science for some values of all four nouns, but a compiler or a computer language are made things.)
If the tool chain was built to be congenial to a particular habit of thought, that's not gendered, that's style. (Some people get really mad when you call it style.)
E.g., declarative programming is something many self-identified skilled programmers loathe and are bad at. It remains effective.
cognitively accessible math@grimalkina YES. While it may be true that there are average differences... why does that even matter? Oh, and did they even really get good samples?
But how does it matter? What are ye doin' with that premise? I fit the stereotype and struggle w/ 3D perceptions, depth, space... and if that meant we spent a little extra time letting me figure that otu, I"m all for it. Far more likely it would turn into "oh, don't do this thing. Look at how it's not coming naturally YOu're a girl."
Except it might "come naturally" in a different context, cultural or educational.
But how does it matter? What are ye doin' with that premise? I fit the stereotype and struggle w/ 3D perceptions, depth, space... and if that meant we spent a little extra time letting me figure that otu, I"m all for it. Far more likely it would turn into "oh, don't do this thing. Look at how it's not coming naturally YOu're a girl."
Except it might "come naturally" in a different context, cultural or educational.
Marek McGann@grimalkina Okay, self-promotion makes my skin crawl, but as it happens myself and a friend have a book coming in Sept trying to re-up the debate on this. Trying to find some way to put it that it won't be ignored for another 70 years...
Deborah Apthorp@MarekMcGann @grimalkina oooh interesting!
@MarekMcGann I look forward to it!!
yelling jackal@grimalkina so many knives
So many knives
This is the kind of thing that I stamp out HARD when people start up about it because it's rubbish and useless and serves no purpose whatsoever, except for exclusion
So many knives
This is the kind of thing that I stamp out HARD when people start up about it because it's rubbish and useless and serves no purpose whatsoever, except for exclusion
nadja@grimalkina this certainly reads like "we have decided girls are worse at computering than men and we will make damn sure we find the data that supports our claim!"
Nefarious Celt@dequbed @grimalkina can I mansplain here.
And point out the women that “I” know about who created the industry. From initial theory to chip design.
Phil@grimalkina Well this whole thread has been a fun ride. I particularly love the "we studied the two binary genders" part (unless I missed something). Not really a lot of diversity considered across the board here.