Andrea Junker 
Following a rich white man to war because you didn’t like the sound of a black woman laughing will go down in American history as one of the stupidest things ever.
Dreamwinder@Strandjunker @lisamelton In order for it to go down in history that way, we need to beat him next time. Otherwise his Project 2025 stooges will write the history books to make it seem like the best idea ever.
@thisWorldIsInsane 🛡️∴@dreamwinder if there is a 'next time'...
JD@dreamwinder @Strandjunker @lisamelton the only way to stop this is with people in the streets, a shit ton of people, for weeks on end and through blood, sweat and tears, a lot of it. Also for once American could suffer the consequences of their actions instead of starting another pointless war and doing fuck all about it.
Becca
Eggs now in different baskets.@Strandjunker It is a shame that I can only boost this once!
iveyline@Strandjunker Following Trump is like following lemmings leaping to their death off a cliff.
François @Jura
Disisdeguey🔻PalestineAction🇵🇸@Strandjunker Well under that laughing woman they were already bombing and massacring #Palestinians
Do not cover one war monger with another.
#biden4genocide #kamala4genocide
Do not cover one war monger with another.
#biden4genocide #kamala4genocide
Eh?!?@disisdeguey @Strandjunker
Given the current condition of #Palestinians after 5 months of this administration, the "blabla4genocide" argument strikes me for its careless disregard for the Palestinian people.
Given the current condition of #Palestinians after 5 months of this administration, the "blabla4genocide" argument strikes me for its careless disregard for the Palestinian people.
Falling forward 🍉@Eh__tweet @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
The careless disregard was from both political parties. That's the point.
The careless disregard was from both political parties. That's the point.
contrasocial@Eh__tweet @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
It was as brutal under Biden, you just refused to see it.
@contrasocial @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
That's not the point I'm making. If someone argues that a Dem administration would have not moved war to Iran (at least not under the current conditions), what's the point of bringing out that Dems and GOPs had the same stance about Palestine? It's exploiting the suffering of the Palestinians to prop up a political agenda re the USA. Or to claim one's own ethical purity, which is even worse, like "who cares about Iran war victims, I was right on Nov 6th"
That's not the point I'm making. If someone argues that a Dem administration would have not moved war to Iran (at least not under the current conditions), what's the point of bringing out that Dems and GOPs had the same stance about Palestine? It's exploiting the suffering of the Palestinians to prop up a political agenda re the USA. Or to claim one's own ethical purity, which is even worse, like "who cares about Iran war victims, I was right on Nov 6th"
@Eh__tweet @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
What's the point of not participating in a vote between two genocidal candidates? Is that seriously your question?
Neoliberals hit the furthest extent that they could push us all to the far right, and that point was literal fucking genocide. You need to adjust your blame, the Harris campaign had a very easy way to avoid all this. They thought they could force us all to vote for her with the threat of Trump. Well, they can't. Learn the fucking lesson.
@contrasocial @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
The point is making what's possible to avoid ADDITIONAL victims and suffering WRT what's already going on. Trump's victory brought nothing good for the Palestinians, and we now have war in Iran, migrants being disappeared in the USA, LGBTQ rights being maimed, poor people in the USA losing that minimal welfare they relied upon and counting.
Maybe more wars to come all over the world.
We may disagree on this, of course, but both PoVs deserve respect.
The point is making what's possible to avoid ADDITIONAL victims and suffering WRT what's already going on. Trump's victory brought nothing good for the Palestinians, and we now have war in Iran, migrants being disappeared in the USA, LGBTQ rights being maimed, poor people in the USA losing that minimal welfare they relied upon and counting.
Maybe more wars to come all over the world.
We may disagree on this, of course, but both PoVs deserve respect.
@Eh__tweet @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
The genocide was running at full speed under Biden, what we're seeing now is no different from what was happening, it would've progressed along the same path.
Again, maybe the Harris campaign should've considered whether defending the depravity of a far right foreign regime was worth throwing our democracy down the drain.
I completely disagree that genocide apologetics deserve respect, no matter how much respectable language they're wrapped up in.
@contrasocial @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
You are talking about what the Dems should have or should have not done. I don't argue on that, and the Dems are accountable for their choices.
I am talking about voters. Also they are accountable for the consequences of their choices.
The life of a guy deported to a concentration camp in El Salvador is not more worth that a Palestinian, but also not less worth.
And choosing "the lesser evil" does not mean being a genocide apologetic.
@Eh__tweet @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
There is no "lesser evil" with genocide. Just evil.
And yes, voters are responsible for their votes. Which includes the last 40 years of "lesser" evil voting that got us here.
Those who withheld their votes are the very people effected by that choice. They made it willingly, despite it putting us in danger.
This is the end of the lesser evil strategy ever being viable. It's critical that you accept that. Do not try to force through another AIPAC dem.
@contrasocial @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
I think we may agree to disagree.
Just one last remark: I'm not even in the USA, I'm Italian and we have been a laboratory for this kind of debate for decades now. What I got from our experience is that I have 4 or 5 years to dismantle the flaws of the political left wing, incl. "the lesser evil" AS A STRATEGY. Then comes election day. And I have to decide if I'm for public healthcare or for people dying young or being maimed because they're poor.
I think we may agree to disagree.
Just one last remark: I'm not even in the USA, I'm Italian and we have been a laboratory for this kind of debate for decades now. What I got from our experience is that I have 4 or 5 years to dismantle the flaws of the political left wing, incl. "the lesser evil" AS A STRATEGY. Then comes election day. And I have to decide if I'm for public healthcare or for people dying young or being maimed because they're poor.
Wm.sonAnd what would have been the result had she strongly come out against Israel?
Sadly, the point of running for president is to WIN or try to, in order to get in a place what you can affect change.
If she'd won, could she have stopped Israel? Probably not, but they haven't been stopped in the current outcome, either.
And the US is worse off for it. (Yes, coldly, sometimes we have to think about more than one terrible thing at a time.)
Just one opinion, all my own, trying to make sense of things.
SouprMatt@Eh__tweet @contrasocial @disisdeguey @Strandjunker You nailed it. The people who didn’t vote are making excuses for themselves now.
The “both sides are bad” people are helping MAGA. They might never gain the self-awareness to see it. But they are.
BenAveling@disisdeguey @Strandjunker not like this they weren’t. Congratulations on your contribution to what’s happening, you must feel so proud of yourself.
@BenAveling @Strandjunker Yes they were Supporting AND accomplice of GENOCIDE. Congratulations if you voted for genociders.
@disisdeguey Not on this scale they weren't. You hit that fastforward button, you got what everyone told you you'd get. You chose the greater evil. You won. Get over it.
@Strandjunker
@Strandjunker
@BenAveling @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
It was as bad under Biden. Genocide is genocide is genocide. Stop trying to rationalize.
zrb@Strandjunker @contrasocial @BenAveling @disisdeguey Trump is merely the mask coming off of an underlying rot in American politics and society that has been festering and growing for decades. Harris's administration would have been less egregiously fascist, yes, and voting for her would have staved off a lot of suffering, yes, but only temporarily and only for certain people. I'm not saying that isn't worth it; I'm personally all for maximizing utility and the pragmatic application of power, but I'm also not going to blame or shame people who decided that there wasn't a lot of sense in voting either way for "which smiling face heads the giant oppression machine", as they saw a Democratic Party that is currently in the process of adopting all of the ideals and talking points of fascists. That choice wasn't (in their eyes) actually going to change anything about the material conditions of them or their community, so they chose neither.
The best thing we can be doing now is building strong and resilient communities that help and protect each other outside of the transactional expectations put upon us, and trying our best to counter the pressure to be isolated and alone and powerless. Strong community can't be taken away by a new person taking office every four years.
@contrasocial @Strandjunker @BenAveling @disisdeguey We can't say for certain whether the current genocide would have been "worse" or "better" if Harris had been elected instead of Trump, but honestly that question is kinda irrelevant. To repeat @contrasocial, genocide is genocide.
@contrasocial @BenAveling @disisdeguey @Strandjunker There are innocent people in a Salvadoran concentration camp. Masked men are rounding up innocents by the thousands every day.
It is beyond obvious to everybody that things in the world are FAR worse today than they were a year ago. Both sides are NOT the same, no matter how many times you say it. This kind of lying is pro-MAGA propaganda. I believe 99% of people in the #Fediverse are smart enough to see that, but for some reason I still feel compelled to point it out.
Bishop Greer Godsey@contrasocial @BenAveling @disisdeguey @Strandjunker Let me get this straight, you are advocating for more genocide in order to own the dems for not doing more to stop genocide? They were fighting to end the genocide while Trump is cheering it on and wants all Palestinians and Ukrainians wiped off the face of the earth. Is that what you are saying here? And stop with the false moral high ground. No one outside of Israel is capable of stopping the genocide unless they off Bibi and ALL his supporters. So to claim ANY US candidate could end the genocide is a false statement and you know it.
@bishop @BenAveling @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
No. You can't resist genocide by building a party led by genocide supporters (i.e. zionists).
Harris couldn't even bring herself to condemn the genocide, or even let Palestinians who wanted to help her get elected speak at the DNC. She and Biden support the slaughter as much as Trump.
Israel is a client of the US. The genocide ends when we stop supplying them with the means of carrying it out. US admins have stopped Israeli bombings before.
The Democrats certainly could have done more to stop the genocide, should have even. But Trump is turbocharging it. Of course, the people in this thread who wanted Trump to win knew that. They were happy to sacrifice the Palestinians, and still are. They're just not happy to admit it.
@bishop @contrasocial @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
@bishop @contrasocial @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
@BenAveling @bishop @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
No, Trump Biden and Harris were identical on the genocide. There was no "turbocharging" just completely hands off, uninterrupted support for the slaughter by all parties from start to present.
A couple of months back Palestine still had hospitals and universities and shit. Now they don't. So congratulations I guess, your boy won and you're getting what you fought so hard for.
@contrasocial @bishop @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
@contrasocial @bishop @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
@BenAveling @bishop @disisdeguey @Strandjunker
Israel has been bombing hospitals and demoing water infrastructure since the first months of the genocide, there's been no acceleration because it was already full speed with no friction from the US or international community. You simply chose to ignore it under Biden.
The only choice that was left to the anti-genocide coalition was to let the Democratic party break itself so it can be rebuilt into an anti-genocide party.
Lillian Violet@BenAveling @disisdeguey @Strandjunker nobody said they voted for trump, they just said they don't support the Democrats, you're twisting the narrative. People want to hold them responsible for actively supporting genocide. You can't blame your way out of the democrats running on a loser platform that is pro genocide and unpopular, you lost. Get over it and hold *everyone* accountable to make things better.
There were two choices. I guess you got the one you wanted. Congratulations, you won.
What now?
@disisdeguey @GLaDTheresCake @Strandjunker
What now?
@disisdeguey @GLaDTheresCake @Strandjunker
@BenAveling @disisdeguey @Strandjunker so we can hold you personally responsible for all the horrible things Democrats make and let happen if they get elected again as well or does the hypocrisy only flow one way with you? Also I'm European mate, I can't vote in your elections.
I’m not American either. But, much as you are trying to persuade ppl to let Trump win, I am trying to persuade ppl to oppose Trump, even if that means voting Democrat. So yes, if the Democrats get back in and if they turn out to be worse than Trump, you may in some small measure blame me. @disisdeguey @Strandjunker @GLaDTheresCake
@BenAveling @Strandjunker @GLaDTheresCake The point is that Democrats are also like Republicans. There's no difference. Obama was a war criminal as much as it was Bush sr of Jr. And we don't need democrats to win again to demostrate how sweet or not they are, BIDEN (a so called Zionist himself) helped to kill thousands of Palestinians. WE WATCHED LIVE. #donaldtacotrump it's just the continuity of #USrael policy in the last 100 years. The real terrorists disguised as "saviors" The only hope is that US empire falls once and for all, soon.
Misuse Case@GLaDTheresCake @BenAveling @disisdeguey @Strandjunker Good thing you didn’t vote for the genociding Democrats, the other candidate won and all the genociding is fixed now.
/s
@MisuseCase @GLaDTheresCake @BenAveling @Strandjunker This is the problem you still thinking in Black or white as an spectrum. They lied to you, both of them. The #USrael is not a democracy per se. Welcome to the Red pill side.
@disisdeguey @GLaDTheresCake @BenAveling @Strandjunker Ew, red pill? Like the manosphere red pill? No thanks.
@disisdeguey @GLaDTheresCake @BenAveling @Strandjunker It was a Matrix reference and a conspiracy theory bit when the manosphere people started using it too.
Thanks for leaning into the stereotype that right-wingers and left-wingers are the same. /s
@disisdeguey
While we definitely were not doing enough to stop the Israeli genocide in Gaza, it is disingenous to say that we were the ones doing the actual bombing. Yes, we sold them the bombs but that has been US policy for years now. Neither Harris nor Biden told Netanyahu to bomb civilians> He takes full blame. But noth Harris and Biden could have spoken up more for the rights of the Palestinians. No doubt about that.
Of course now we have another distraction so we can forget about it...
@BluesHarp You really live in denial, though. #USrael bombed #Gaza WITH US bombs, soldiers on land (you already forgot Gaza's harbour) there are witnesses talking about US soldiers shooting civilians. I mean, stop believing propaganda/hasbara. Your government LIES ALL THE F....ING TIME.
I rest my case and now move on.
I rest my case and now move on.
@disisdeguey
LOL. You rest your case based on lies? Interesting. Hate to tell you this but there are no US soldiers in Gaza and you have also provided zero proof that there are.
I rest my case...
They did not want a white woman in 2016, so it was quite unsurprising a black woman would be a step too far.
Amazing how these countries like France, US, supposedly the birthplaces of modern democracy never elected women president (in France women had no right to vote until after WWII) while countries like Moldova, Georgia already had.
Arena Cops 🇺🇦✌@FrancoisPrague @Strandjunker Valid point!
Toni Aittoniemi@Strandjunker To be fair, Harris likely would have done the same thing with Netanyahu.
pgcdHarris would NOT have launched an attack without congress approval, though.
Perhaps she would've convinced congress to to it, but not like this.
@pgcd @Strandjunker Perhaps she would have gotten there later, but there she would likely have arrived nevertheless. Democrats are only a few steps behind.
From abroad, the two parties in USA seem more like two wings of the same party, fighting for control of the same vehicle that’s headed solidly in one direction.
@gimulnautti @pgcd @Strandjunker
The "not without congress approval" is not a minor argument. As big news as it can be, entering a war with Iran is "only" one of the worrying things that this administration is doing: challenging all the "checks and balances" mechanisms provided by the US Constitution is at least as big news as the Iran war and it may have longer lasting consequences so it's should never be overlooked.
The "not without congress approval" is not a minor argument. As big news as it can be, entering a war with Iran is "only" one of the worrying things that this administration is doing: challenging all the "checks and balances" mechanisms provided by the US Constitution is at least as big news as the Iran war and it may have longer lasting consequences so it's should never be overlooked.
@Eh__tweet @pgcd @Strandjunker Yes, I agree that it’s not a fact to be overlooked. But we should not forget that it was the democratic Nobel-prize winning president Obama, who vastly expanded US drone strike operations abroad.
It’s a different pace and different justifications. Softer spoken but with the same weapons. The two fight between each other for what is an acceptable reason.
@gimulnautti probably headed in the same direction, yes. Still, in one case there would be brakes that could be applied, in the other it's all whatever fucking random whim the moron in chief picks today.
@pgcd @Strandjunker Yeah. The taco in charge seems to think whatever the last person he spoke to told him.
Definitely worst president I have ever seen the US elect, and constantly being taken advantage of in geopolitics.
Putin toyed with him first, next the Saudis, now it’s Netanyahu’s turn.
This whole era of history might retrospectively be called: ”How the illiberal regimes of the world charged to take advantage of the stupidest US president ever elected” 🤷♂️
Kid Mania@gimulnautti @pgcd @Strandjunker
Hey, don't forget the golden ticket of immunity given to him by SCOTUS. America died on July 1st, 2024.
Obama didn't get that. Actually, no other president in American history had that.
☠️ 🇺🇸 ☠️
Whalejuicesmoothie@clintruin @gimulnautti @pgcd @Strandjunker He's been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion and all that's left is to convene the firing squad. NO QUARTER FOR TRAITORS.
@gimulnautti
I'm not so sure about that. Dumpty wants to be a tough guy even though he is weak. Harris had no inclination to please Netanyahu. My guess is that she would have simply refused to say anything bad about Netanyahu but would not have resorted to bombing.
I'm not so sure about that. Dumpty wants to be a tough guy even though he is weak. Harris had no inclination to please Netanyahu. My guess is that she would have simply refused to say anything bad about Netanyahu but would not have resorted to bombing.