Since the outfit of the cardinals came up, I wonder: how much of the #lace in them is hand-made?

I found this article from 2022 with close-ups of the outfits, and I wonder which of the white lace is hand-made and how many hours of work it took?

https://rp-online.de/panorama/ausland/rom-papst-franziskus-beruft-20-neue-kardinaele_aid-75917089

Let's have a look and feel free to add your knowledge :-D

#lacemaking #cardinal #guessTheLace #guessTheWorkHours

Rom: Papst Franziskus beruft 20 neue Kardinäle

Papst Franziskus beruft aus vier Kontinenten 20 neue Kardinäle in den Kardinalsstand, von denen die meisten jünger als 80 Jahre alt sind. Deutsche sind dieses Mal nicht dabei. Zeitpunkt und Auswahl sorgen für Spekulationen.

RP ONLINE

Okay, first one:

not technically an outfit, but still white lace :-D

At first glance, I'd say this is filet crochet, but I did see a similar lace in one of the outfits, and there it looked woven?

Anyone wanna weigh in?

If it is filet crochet, I'd estimate somewhere between 30 and 60 minutes per flower motif, so 30 to 60 hours total if we're seeing almost the whole table here.

#lace #filetCrochet #lacemaking #cardinal #guessTheLace #guessTheWorkHours

Cardinal Giorgio Marengo.

This looks like tatted lace to me? Plus hemstitching details?

Is it possible to make machine-produced tatted lace?

If it's hand-tatted, I'd estimate several hours per 10cm of lace?

Was this post sponsored by a question-mark factory? #scnr

#lace #lacemaking #cardinal #tattedlace #guessTheLace #guessTheWorkHours

Cardinal Virgílio do Carmo da Silva.

This doesn't happen often, but I have *no* idea what type of lace this is O.O

Does anyone have a clue?

#lace #lacemaking #cardinal #guessTheLace #guessTheWorkHours

(I'm gonna post them all, and then I'll return to do the picture description, promise!)

Cardinal Paulo Cezar Costa.

Could this be bobbin lace?
It is possible to machine-produce some types of bobbin lace, but this looks so elaborate, I'm kinda leaning towards hand-made.

If it's hand-made bobbin lace, I'd say half a day or a full day per oval motif?

#lace #lacemaking #cardinal #bobbinlace #guessTheLace #guessTheWorkHours

Cardinal Peter Ebere Okpaleke.

This is the one that looks like filet crochet, but kinda woven at the same time?

If it is crochet, I'd estimate maybe 2-3 hours per 10cm?

#lace #lacemaking #cardinal #filetcrochet #guessTheLace #guessTheWorkHours

Cardinal Jean-Marc Aveline.

I have no idea, but to me it looks similar to Plauen Lace, which is machine-made AFAIK?

#lace #lacemaking #cardinal #plauenLace #plauenerSpitze

Cardinal Robert Walter McElroy.

This seems to be mainly hemstitching (Hohlsäume)?

Looks kinda hand-made?

I'd estimate under 30 minutes per 10cm.

#lace #lacemaking #cardinal #hemstitching #guessTheLace #guessTheWorkHours

Cardinal Filipe Neri António Sebastião do Rosário Ferrão.

OMG. There's element of tape-lace in it, which could be either bobbin lace or crochet (aka Bruges lace). Also, the pixel-art looking lace could be filet crochet again.

So, different crochet techniques? Which would point to hand-made...

If it is hand-made, we're looking at *hundreds* of hours here O.O

#lace #lacemaking #cardinal #tapeLace #bobbinLace #fileCrochet #brugesLace #guessTheLace #guessTheWorkHours

Cardinal Lazarus You Heung-sik.

Again with the lace that looks like crochet but is kinda too detailed for crochet...

I wish someone would put me out of my misery here and tell me what it is.

#lace #lacemaking #cardinal #crochetLace #guessTheLace #guessTheWorkHours

I think Cardinal You Heung-sik and Cardinal Leonardo Ulrich Steiner here have the same tailor.

Or at least the same lace-maker :-D

#lace #lacemaking #cardinal #crochetLace #guessTheLace #guessTheWorkHours

Cardinal Oscar Cantoni.

Here it is again. Tape-lace, filet crochet and the little motifs with the yarn "bridges" that look like #RichelieuLace or #MadeiraLace?

A gorgeous piece...

#lace #lacemaking #cardinal #crochetLace #guessTheLace #guessTheWorkHours

Cardinal Gianfranco Ghirlanda.

With a humble bit of #hemstitching (as far as we can see. Could be all 'party at the bottom').

Again, probably under 30 minutes per 10cm.

#lace #lacemaking #cardinal #guessTheLace #guessTheWorkHours

Edited: found another pic. If that's him at the left of the first row then the white shirt ended as humbly as it started)

Cardinal Arrigo Miglio, also rocking some #hemstitching.

Again, probably under 30 minutes per 10cm.

#lace #lacemaking #cardinal #guessTheLace #guessTheWorkHours

Cardinal Fortunato Frezza.

I'm leaning towards #bobbinLace here...?

If true, it's probably a full day per cross motif.

#lace #lacemaking #cardinal #guessTheLace #guessTheWorkHours

@danielaKay Argh. Now I'm invested, interesting thread! Maybe it helps to have the name of the clothing? It's a Rochette/Chorrock (english rochet). On some picturres I would definetely say it's filet crocheting. Some parts remind me a bit of broderie richelieu?

@Magic_Cauldron thanks for the term :-)

Yeah, some of it reminded me of Richelieu-Stickerei as well...

@danielaKay

Thank you putting the focus on their lace. I really would love to see them in detail.

@danielaKay I started seeing this organization in my insta feed at one point, and I realized this is how it's done now.

https://www.ecclesiasticalsewing.com/collections/lace-church-trims-notions

Lace - Church Trims & Notions

@danielaKay Die Monogramme könnten bestickter Netzgrund sein. Also quasi Tüllstickerei, aber nicht auf Tüll, sondern auf Netz/Filet.
Großartiger Thread übrigens!
@Texteundtextilien wusste ich doch, dass Du sowas weisst :-D
@danielaKay Naja, mein Wissen zu Spitzen ist sehr begrenzt. Ich finde die Terminologie ziemlich kompliziert, all diese regionalen Bezeichnungen für zum Teil dieselbe Herstellungsart etc.
@danielaKay
I don't know for sure but my money is on Torchon ground (bobbin lace) for the grid looking parts. I don't think it's filet crochet. Could be needle lace made netting though. The irregular connectors definitely fit with bobbin lace though I'm no expert. Cloth stitch in bobbin lace also produces those kinds of bands. The one thing that stumps me are the letters. I don't think they'd look this smooth if bobbin lace but maybe they are embroidered on top?
@Giselle I agree with everything you said :-)
I guess we have to kidnap cardinal during the conclave to get a better look :-D
@danielaKay
Teeheehee, can you imagine! We might send a cardinal running while shouting after him: please, please, Signore, stop! We just want a really close look at your lace, we're harmless, we swear!