Mastodawn

Bluesky is cancelling accounts when foreign governments ask them to, and Threads is doing adverts soon.

The thing to understand about the corporate public messaging systems is that they do not exist to let you publish or to talk to people. That is not the point of them. That's at best just the bait laid to lure you into their trap.

They exist to make money for the shareholders. That's why Threads exists, that's why Blockchain Inc invested to keep Bluesky running.

Only one network exists in order to let people communicate as the point and reason for it's existence. Only one network has no shareholders and no owners.

Only one is fighting for the user, not the shareholder.

#fediverse

PeachMcD Apr 24

Hey @ThomHartmann
🙋‍♀️

@pre it’s nice that we have it cosy here, but if federated messenging gets enough traction how hard it would be for authorities to shut down instances and prosecute people they don’t like? it feels like there is little protection embedded into the federated tech. no?

Adam Dalliance Apr 24

@wroong Governments could shut down instances in their own jurisdiction pretty easily, but since instances are in general not global corporations with financial affairs in all countries around the globe they would have more trouble interfering with those outside their jurisdiction.

If you are, for instance, a Turkish opposition campaigner you should use an instance outside Turkey.

Government can of course also block instances from their entire country, if they fancy a game of whackamole.

@pre Fair enough

𝕾𝖊𝖙𝖙𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖓𝖔 𝖅𝖚𝖈𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖔

@wroong@s.basspistol.org @pre I'd say the fediverse is equally vulnerable to this for different reasons. Since identity is entangled to the url, if you manage to block access of a user to their instance, you have essentially deplatformed them by destroying their graph.

𝕾𝖊𝖙𝖙𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖓𝖔 𝖅𝖚𝖈𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖔

@pre ah! I see you're on nostr too! so, we can agree there are 2 networks involved in this fight! 😁 Our odds are not too bad! 💫
@wroong@s.basspistol.org

Adam Dalliance Apr 24

@setto Yeah, maybe Nostr too. It also isn't really owned by anyone at least.

𝕾𝖊𝖙𝖙𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖓𝖔 𝖅𝖚𝖈𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖔

@pre certainly, it really isn't owned by anyone! I'm really worried about the fedi in that regard. Seeing the network shares of dot social and players like meta lurking in, i find it hard to imagine fedi scale in any other way than a handfull of multi-million users instances. You can't just pause a community, or switch it over to software with cheaper maintenance costs without destroying the community graph.

𝕾𝖊𝖙𝖙𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖓𝖔 𝖅𝖚𝖈𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖔

@pre and we're not even of a threatful size yet. I don't think it is very clear to a majority of people on here, how much power an instance admin really has over their identity. But as we grow, we're likely going to find out the hard way. I don't think any of it is intentional though. Fedi was designed at a time with different challenges, when trust was a different issue in the context of digital socialization. I'm enjoying this place thoroughly, but I'm not putting all my eggs in it. Nostr likely has issues we don't even know about yet, it's pretty boring as a social hub, and managing keypairs isn't trivial. But I'm very glad it exists.

Adam Dalliance Apr 25

@setto nostr is likely to have trouble with spam and hate and bullying. They are aiming for censorship resistance but what is usually more important is moderation.

We shall see. Moderation is a group activity really, nostr will need good ways to share blocklists or something.

𝕾𝖊𝖙𝖙𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖓𝖔 𝖅𝖚𝖈𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖔

@pre Those two specific issues are mitigated already with proof-of-work for spam, and block lists already exists. The point that most people seem to misunderstand is that relays can have access-lists and two users can't communicate if they don't share at least one relay. So it's fairly easy to build a protected community. Very much like it works with fediverse servers, except no one is ever dependent on any given relay.

Adam Dalliance Apr 25

@setto Wasn't aware that communicably editable group block lists exist.

Don't see them on nostrudel, which is the only web-app I've seen where even individual blocking was working at all.

Maybe it's only on the phone apps that I will never use.

𝕾𝖊𝖙𝖙𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖓𝖔 𝖅𝖚𝖈𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖔

@pre Some clients will use lists, others use Kind 10 and 44. If you mute someone in nostrudel, you will see them appear in your profile kind-boxes thingies under any of those numbers.

Of course every client implements whatever their devs see fit. Luckily, most of those devs are decent idealists. We're getting there. I'm more curious about seeing the unkown unknowns of the protocol come into light.

@pre @setto besides governments meddling, I would be concerned about relative ease with which you can identify people hosting a server for example, with a big company it’s obvious who’s hosting it but you don’t go to fb’s datacenter and beat the sht out of them if you feel an urge

𝕾𝖊𝖙𝖙𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖓𝖔 𝖅𝖚𝖈𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖔

@wroong this is already a thing, if i recall correctly, i believe kolektiva admins got raided at some point. By law enforcement i think. but... well like you say...
@pre

GeneralX Apr 24

@pre @wroong this is why a core tenet of the fediverse is #decentralization. Avoid giant instances, if you can. (I'm looking at you, mastodon.social).

FreeBooteR69 🇨🇦 🎮 🐧🍁💪Apr 24

@wroong @pre Playing wack A mole with thousands of Fediverse sites would be unproductive. Shut down one, others pop up elsewhere.

Riderkicker 6d ago

I always worry about fediblock lists getting hijacked & misused myself. A few people with enough sway can claim an instance they disagree with should be avoided & mods could blindly follow.

@pre @riderkicker hmm, sounds worrisome, but what an interesting space for hackers

Andrew J Spaulding Apr 24

@pre I'm on Bluesky, and for about 2 weeks now, I'm getting freeze up times throughout the day. I'm not canceled at least yet.

Adam Dalliance Apr 24

@AJ_andrew69 I have an account there too but I'm not under the impression that it belongs to me in any way.

That account is the properly of Blockchain Inc and their partners.

Andrew J Spaulding Apr 24

@pre I have to agree with you.

@pre "The thing to understand about the corporate public messaging systems is that they do not exist to let you publish or to talk to people.
...
They exist to make money for the shareholders."

I don't think anyone has put this quite so clearly and concisely before. Thank you. This is the message some of us are struggling to get through to people who see only how shiny they are, how all that money produces large enough teams that can squash more bugs or offer prettier pictures.

Because all that is just a trap to lure you in and trap you inside. If they didn't think the trap worked they wouldn't spend so much on those things. They aren't spending to help people or to give them nice things. They're spending so they can use people for producing higher profits than what they spent.

Alpha Male Martha Stewart 🍉🌈Apr 24

@pre So I loved this so much that I posted a screen shot over there to let people know.... and it got censored.

Adam Dalliance Apr 24

@fiend_unpleasant 😆

Looks more like a bug than censorship but you never can tell what the owners are playing at on networks that have owners.

Alpha Male Martha Stewart 🍉🌈Apr 24

@pre that is possible but its also a little odd that the only other time it has happened is when I was yapping about Irish liberation. The fact that I went strait to censorship and not that they suck at programing should be damning enough I think.

HeliosPi Apr 24

@pre What about Matrix?

Adam Dalliance Apr 24

@HeliosPi I was under the impression that was more like private chat than public publishing, but haven't looked at it in years so maybe I got that wrong.

HeliosPi Apr 24

@pre I guess it's more like Discord in that respect, like semi-public.

cognitively accessible math Apr 24

and there are more blivit-faces there, too.

Earthshine Apr 24

@pre technically there are several but yes they are all open source volunteer projects and most of them are small and barely used since they can't compete with the market share of the corporate offerings.

nedovolny Apr 24

@pre And it's #Telegram.

Glen, now with 100% OPSEC Apr 24

@pre "foreign governments"

Well that's today's dose of US neo-colonialism.

Anikke 🌻 🚴‍ ♀️ #ichbinantifa Apr 24

@pre

Ich verstehe auch nicht, warum die Leite nicht aus Twitter gelernt haben und sich jetzt den freien Netzwerken anschließen. Warum laufen so viele zum nächsten Monopolisten?

Lunar 🛸 ♾Apr 24

@pre Reminds me of this evergreen post. https://catvalente.substack.com/p/stop-talking-to-each-other-and-start

Stop Talking to Each Other and Start Buying Things: Three Decades of Survival in the Desert of Social Media

I bet you're wondering how we got here...

Welcome to Garbagetown

Cass M 🇨🇦

@pre donate to your instance admin to keep them running!

Shelley Powers Apr 24

@pre Not quite

https://techcrunch.com/2025/04/23/government-censorship-comes-to-bluesky-but-not-its-third-party-apps-yet/

Government censorship comes to Bluesky, but not its third-party apps ... yet | TechCrunch

Government censorship has found its way to Bluesky, but there's currently a loophole thanks to how the social network is structured.Earlier this

TechCrunch

🇨🇦CrinstamCamp🇨🇦Apr 24

@pre It's like nobody has ever understood "Give them the first hit for free".

@pre That's why i'm here, not there.

If they went away the Fediverse would still be there for us, ad-free and and without investors who expect revenue.

Donate from time to time to your Mastodon instance if you don't host yourself and everything will be fine.

Jake in the desert Apr 24

@pre 🔥

Joachim Ziebs Apr 24

@pre @RigsbySiv Amen, brother!

Dopes The Frogman Apr 24

@pre IDK, I wouldn't get too cozy on public message forums of any kind simply because they all have to follow the law. Unless you're on the dark web in a seedy IRC that's decentralized, you're fair game.

Adam Dalliance Apr 24

@macacator My instance doesn't have to follow the law in Turkey though.

The law in the UK is probably worse but still 😆 I can go dark, I can move, I have all kinds of options.

Fat_Farang Apr 24

@pre From 'Jerry on Mastodon' https://hear-me.social/@Jerry/114394227260930533

Jerry on Mastodon (@Jerry@hear-me.social)

For those who think #BlueSky is a safe alternative to #X and #Meta, and not at all like them, today I learned that, according to #Mozilla, BlueSky is feeding information about its users to ShadowDragon's #SocialNet, a tool used by U.S. Government agencies like #ICE to "fuel mass surveillance". Seems to me that if you do not agree with the current U.S. Governments efforts to harass immigrants and round up non-whites, even if they are legally in the U.S., then maybe you don't want to support Bluesky after all, and you need to ask yourself what type of people they are for supporting this? There are more than 200 websites feeding information to the U.S. government. This is why, with the concerns I have about Mozilla, I still support them, BTW. https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/campaigns/no-data-for-surveillance-tech/ #ShadowDragon

hear-me.social -- Say what is on your mind, but with respect

Cute, but any instance must obey the laws of the country their servers are in or risk penalties.

And the fediverse is not unique. @torproject, @i2p and others exist.

Adam Dalliance Apr 24

And the UK at least seem to think it must also obey the laws of the UK if they have any UK users.

You got options though. If things get hot. Avoid the UK. Avoid your own government. Run your own over TOR.

"There Is Only One" is indeed overstating it. There's also Nostr and matrix and others of various decreasing relevance that aren't really owned.

"There's only one that has reached at all beyond geek niche" would probably be more accurate.

We will definitely need a better one, and/or to improve this.

Victor Nava Apr 25

@pre @lordbowlich #fediverse #forthewin

David W. Jones Apr 25

@pre
👍
@adavid

@pre Aside from the obvious capture, BlueSky has also been thoroughly infiltrated by bots. I rarely post and when I do it's screen shots from masto and yet I still get about 10-20 followers a day. No likes, no reposts, just followers. All with suspiciously similar profiles and all with kindred political views.

Gabbo the wafrn guy 5d ago

they are adding a label that is "hide on this country" on the main web app.

and fedi… is not like A FUCKING SODA CORPORATION made mastodon social fediblock brands town.

EDIT my bad apologies didnt saw it was a two posts day. is just that i was seeing same kind of posts a lot lately.

decentralized is not censorship resistant

desconectado 5d ago

@pre I didn't use mainstream social media because of this. Now I'm using Mastodon. I tried Bluesky, but it's too X-like for me. I'm from Brazil and Mastodon and the Fediverse aren't very well known here like X is, but there are a few groups working to promote it. Social media needs to change, otherwise the whole world will suffer a breakdown in democratic principles.

@pre this is why i love mastadon

@pre And yet. despite all that, nobody has solved fedi's onboarding problem, or the fact almost all instances are made for übernerds and a lot of minorities are silenced & driven away in here, or it's owners are absolute fucks, and you're left with coughing up the money for iron and losing your patience self-hosting as your only recourse.

While believing strongly in this cause, one must realize it's hopeless if we keep being user-hostile towards the common user.