It's been eight years to the day since Lance Ulanoff, the storied Tech and Social Media Expert and an award-winning tech journalist, decided that Mastodon won't survive because William Shatner couldn't find him on here.

Eight years on, Mastodon stubbornly survives:
https://rys.io/en/177.html

Please join me in celebrating the annual Mastodon Won't Survive Day, right here on fedi.  

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#Mastodon #Fediverse #MastodonWontSurvive

Eight years on, Mastodon stubbornly survives

Eight years ago Lance Ulanoff had a problem. William Shatner could not find him on Mastodon. His distress is understandable, relatable even. Who wouldn’t want to be found by Captain Kirk himself! The

Songs on the Security of Networks

As it happens, one of the oldest Mastodon instances – octodon dot social – is going to close down very soon.

This is a sad milestone, but it also shows the resilience of the broader network – people migrated, and relations remain.

That tiny volunteer-run instance survived longer than Google+ – a gigantic behemoth of a social network, backed by one of the largest tech companies in the world, and pushed down on everyone and their dog through mandatory integration with YouTube.

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I will probably never get tired of having a hearty laugh on Mastodon Won't Survive Day.

Ulanoff's piece is such a great example of "tech bubble journalism" – where anything that does not fit in the round hole of Silicon Valley VC-fueled business models must necessarily be outside of the realm of possibility (and imagination).

Not only he completely ignores the existence of broader fedi, but he also compares Mastodon to Peach – a centralized social network that quickly fizzled out.

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Peach fizzled out because it was trying to replicate the monopoly-based walled-garden business model of already existing social networks.

The problem is: that space is already overcrowded. To really have a shot at that, one would need resources comparable to the resources of the biggest players in that space. And even if you do have such resources, this might still not be enough – as the fate of Google+ illustrates.

Fedi is playing a different game; decentralization is a superpower.

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Because fedi is not VC-backed, it does not need to generate hockey stick growth, and it is not going to end up under immense pressure to enshittify when early investors start demanding their payouts.

Because it is decentralized, it can try all sorts of things all at once. You want shorter posts? Or longer posts? Or an experience focused on photos? Or short videos? You want quote posts, or do not want them?

There's an instance for that™.

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This is not to say everything is honky-dory and our job here is done.

There are loads of things Mastodon-the-software-project needs fixed or implemented, there are loads of things other fedi software projects need.

And there is still the cultural problem of racism on fedi that drives Black and Brown people away.  

But all of this is fixable, and we all have agency here, in ways a VC-funded walled-garden ripe for enshittification is not.

So we have that going for us.

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@rysiek racism on fedi?! I thought that this is the last space, where racism could appear...
@wojslaw @rysiek it's there, it hides in corners most White users don't see but POC users are subjected to it and it needs to be smashed where-ever it pops up.
Unfortunately the racists live for this shit like Nicole the Fediverse Chick lives to spam

@wojslaw @rysiek
There's an entire "dark fedi" that exists largely disconnected from mainstream fedi. These are the major racist/spam instances that are blocked by everyone who stays up to date with their blocklists.

Check out the #GardenFence curated blocklist for an idea of how large the dark fedi is.

When an instance fails to implement these blocks, the nazis get through.

@rysiek Mastodon's greatest strength is that it's not necessarily Mastodon.
@rysiek yeah. When I put together https://medium.com/a-change-is-coming/mastodon-14-perspectives-on-a-breakthrough-month-521ce46baa71 back in the day I intentionally decided *not* to include Ulanoff's post.
Mastodon: 14 perspectives on a breakthrough month - A Change Is Coming - Medium

April was a big month for Mastodon, the open-source, decentralized, ad-free Twitter alternative. As lead developer Eugen Rochko says Yeah really! By the end of the month, Mastodon had grown to over…

A Change Is Coming

@rysiek

There is something about volunteer-run open infrastructure that keeps going even when corporations disappear. It can break through the limits of the profit motive.

For example, there's a tradition in the amateur radio community for helping in natural disasters, they have a parallel self-funded low-price communications infrastructure that doesn't need phone lines or internet or satellites or expensive gear (or even power lines if it's battery-operated). Corporations cannot provide this because it isn't profitable, so if the worst happens governments and communities often turn to amateurs.

@rysiek Dated but it's still somewhat relevant.
@rysiek He did have a point about people being hard to find though. Meanwhile it has improved a bit.

@rysiek If someone is lauding The Great Orange One trumpeting something either in a Rose Garden or at his latest meeting with the Kremlin, I ask that person "What does Putin's Dick taste like?" It worked wonders in my final days on Facebook and oldTwitter to clean out people in my timeline.

However, I wouldn't be so rude as to question this "tech" journalist's and ask about any of his kinks.

@rysiek Octodon was my first instance, and I'm sad to see it go. But I agree that it also displays the resilience of fedi.

@rysiek when Google+ fizzled out, @dredmorbius, me and a bunch of others set out to figure out where to move. There was a wiki, and the spreadsheet can still be accessed here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14KPoeMOVo4Sr4y43kj01tdm4xi2wsuIh_HZxsfi92vA/edit?usp=sharing

Turns out that most of the central-instance-options are gone or totally enshittified, whereas as the fediverse options are still there and thriving and actually got at least a bit better on the parts that were marked as lacking in the spreadsheet.

Social Network Comparison Table

Google Docs
@jollyorc @dredmorbius oh wow that is fantastic!
@rysiek @dredmorbius most of the UX and safety requirements that I wrote down for shitposting.tax (cough*cough*wink*wink) came from the research I did at that time for that spreadsheet and the groundwork for darcy.is :)
@jollyorc @rysiek @dredmorbius
Why is Bluesky not compared? Why is Xitter not compared?

@jollyorc @rysiek @dredmorbius

Damn, that's super cool to see (Diaspora* 😢 ). I'd love to see a "still active in 2025" column tacked on the end ;)

That Serendipity column is interesting. What were your metrics? Mastodon is market as yes, but in my experience, other than boosting, the serendipity is fairly low (the "who to follow" thing is next to useless, the explore feed is just popular accounts).

@naught101 @rysiek @dredmorbius The serendipity column means "does the network allow me to find other people and topics through interactions, even though they aren't in my immediate network." And for that, Mastodon works surprisingly well I find: Boosting and commenting to boosted posts get me into contact with topics and people that I probably wouldn't get exposed to through algorithmic recommendations or similar.

@jollyorc @rysiek @dredmorbius

True, true. I guess that's just a kind of diffuse, distributed recommender engine.

Somehow mastodon feels like it doesn't have subcultures in the way that twitter does. I wonder if part of Twitter's algorithm encouraged that?

Then again, I guess bubbles are the pathological form of subcultures..

Mastodon very much does have subcultures but in a different way than Twitter, and yes the absence of a single algorithmic feed has a lot to do with it. Here, Instances pay a bigger role here (especially with local-only posts) although it primarily relies on loose groupings of people many of whom follow each other.

@naught101 @jollyorc @rysiek @dredmorbius

@jdp23 @jollyorc @rysiek @dredmorbius

I would say that mastodon DOES have a single algorithmic feed - the explore feed. Of course it's calculated per instance, instead of Twitter's per user feed (and the algorithm is far simpler and more transparent than Twitter's), but that's part of what makes things feel more homogenous..

@jollyorc @rysiek @dredmorbius Somewhat similar to this spreadsheet, some students and I built an archive of alternative social media sites, with screenshots and terms of service statements, back in the mid-2010s:

https://socialmediaalternatives.org/archive/

The Social Media Alternatives Project

The Social Media Alternatives Project (S-MAP) is dedicated to systematically collecting materials related to alternative social media sites.

@rwg @jollyorc @rysiek @dredmorbius wooow love it! My students are doing a siniliar exercise just in Spanish and mainly for art students :)
@rysiek not to mention that Google+ also was at least ancillary to the demise of Google Reader @onepict
@oliof @rysiek @onepict never forget, never forgive 😛
@oliof @rysiek @onepict which I will NEVER forgive Google for killing Reader

@rysiek Good. That's maybe because I've started my Fedi adventure on that instance and it was pretty much impossible to follow anyone, because they blocked EVERYTHING.

Had to migrate to make Mastodon usable for myself.

@rysiek
Yeah, but social.tchncs.de is still alive (8 years and few months). 😊

Instances will disappear, but a lot of others will start and will be available for a long time.

@rysiek Octodon sot Social is named after the number of years it remained running

@rysiek

@jerry

Looking for another project? 😁

/Me Runs away ...

@Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 I'll be the one guest on Hubzilla, then. Feliz cumpleanos.
@rysiek How many more years do we have to wait for it to not survive? The suspense is killing me...
@pfm @rysiek That’s easy; don’t. Just savor the good days, put any sense of inevitability or doom aside for now.
@rysiek John Mastodon raises a glass 🥃 Long live Fediverse 
@rysiek My personal opinion is that fedi, or its successor, will keep on chugging along as VC poisoned shit will rise and fall, absorbing a portion of users that got tired of the churn every cycle, until people realise that it has become the de-facto standard.
@Qbitzerre @rysiek I'm willing to put money on BS going bad sooner rather than later. Especially with crypto investors.
@ainmosni @rysiek so you'll be shorting bitcoin? Go for it!
@Qbitzerre @rysiek can't short what I don't have nor want to have.

@ainmosni @rysiek quite the experienced investor, we see.

Any more financial advice for us?

@ainmosni @rysiek I think it's a bit too optimistic. IMO most people will be fine with hopping from one corporate social network to another.
But Fediverse will most likely live as long as there are hobbyists willing to spend $10–$100 a month for their servers.
@art_codesmith @rysiek Oh, I don't think this will go fast, but I think we get a number of converts every cycle.
@ainmosni @rysiek Fair enough, similarly to how Linux gets a bit of an influx every time MS does something greedy.
@art_codesmith @rysiek Yeah, but switching to Linux is a much bigger step than joining here. :)
@martin The biggest strike against XMPP was that it really was not prepared for the mobile world.
@[email protected]
It's now and it has seen several VC funded chat silos come and go. Probably it will still be here when the current silos #WhatsApp, #signal and #threema are gone.

@ainmosni @rysiek +9001%

Just like #IRC & #XMPP+#OMEMO and #PGP/MIME will do the same for #GroupChats and #Messaging in general!

@rysiek just a point that made me stop reading, if you are autistic, you want to stay as far as away from Shatner as possible as he tends to support Autism Speaks even when Autistic people tell him that’s not a good charity for Autistic people
@xgebi thank you, I'll keep that in mind. In my blogpost Shatner is not a protagonist, just an example that Ulanoff had used. But I take your point.

Darn, I only joined 7 years ago. Although I left and moved to #Friendica only about two years after that because I felt too restricted on Mastodon.
But still, Mastodon and the wider Fediverse overall are still the only social Media out there period!
Happy Fediverse won't survive day for me!
P.S. Surprisingly I don't use Arch Linux 

@rysiek

@andi Friendica is an amazing project, I've used it a bit long before Mastodon was even a thing.
@rysiek I wonder how @LanceUlanoff is feeling about this today (or perhaps I should mention them on @Lance_Ulanoff, both accounts seem to be abandoned)