Ramesh #NotGoingBackFeb 13

⬆️ @badrihippo

>> #Indians who still think the #USA is not evil, here's the #WallStreetJournal thinking #Partition was a good thing… 😱

#WSJ is owned by the #Murdoch's family— might as well be from #Mordor, not #US.

The cases are not comparable. #India and #Pakistan agreed to a #UN-proposed #TwoStateSolution in 1947 but #Palestinians rejected similar for #BritishMandate in #Palestine the same year.

Partition of #BritishIndia was actually better for India — Just look at Pakistan now 🙂

@jopy@universeodon.com

Show threadA Tattered ScrapbookFeb 13
@rameshgupta @badrihippo @jopy@universeodon.com Between 200,000 and 2 million died.
Show threadRamesh #NotGoingBackFeb 13

⬆️ @Tattered

>> Between 200,000 and 2 million died.

I'm not sure about the number dead, but ~15 million relocated across both borders (plural) — so I'll accept it.

The question is how do we measure whether a path was "better," and for whom. For those who lost loved ones, death was likely not "better" but for those left behind, I believe #freedom was better.

#India's population is approaching 1.5 billion, and Pakistan is up from less than 50 to ~250M.

@badrihippo

https://mastodon.social/@rameshgupta/111973683817993306

Show threadA Tattered ScrapbookFeb 13

@rameshgupta @badrihippo Freedom that is rewriting school textbooks to erase ideas incompatible with Hindutva?

As soon as you accept a few million deaths for a better world, you have become a monster.

Show threadRamesh #NotGoingBackFeb 13

⬆️ @Tattered

>> #Freedom that is rewriting school textbooks to erase ideas incompatible with Hindutva? As soon as you accept a few million deaths for a better world, you have become a monster.

You have pivoted away from whether accepting a #TwoStateSolution proposed by #UN for #BritishIndia as well as for #BritishMandate in #Palestine was better for all.

#Hindutva is a different monster.

#EcstasyAndAmnesia is #worthReading if you haven't read it already ➡️ https://mastodon.social/@rameshgupta/112441485737099304

@badrihippo

Show threadA Tattered Scrapbook

@rameshgupta @badrihippo No pivoting, sir. The second of my quoted sentences questions your idea that the deaths in the Partition were an acceptable cost for #Freedom now. The first sentence questions whether what India has now is actually freedom.

I think we can both agree that what India has now is much better than the British Raj. The separation of states, good or bad in itself, was managed disastrously, though.

Feb 13 at 10:26pmMastodon for iOS
Show threadRamesh #NotGoingBackFeb 13

⬆️ @Tattered

>> I think we can both agree that what #India has now is much better than the #British #Raj. The separation of states, good or bad in itself, was managed disastrously, though.

Sure. This gets to the crux of the matter — The difference between an #idea and its #implementation.

Idea of a #TwoStateSolution was better for #India - #Pakistan. It was better for #Israel - #Palestine too — had the latter not recklessly rejected it in 1947 in pursuit of #PanArabism #Arabism.

@badrihippo

Show threadA Tattered ScrapbookFeb 14
@rameshgupta @badrihippo I couldn’t disagree more. India/Pakistan was a division of land between native populations. Israel is a settlement state, analogous to Australia or North America. The Palestinians are in the same position as other indigenous populations facing European replacement strategies.
Show threadRamesh #NotGoingBackFeb 14

⬆️ @Tattered

>> I couldn’t disagree more… #India #Pakistan was… between native populations… #Israel is a settlement state…#Palestinians are in the same position as other indigenous populations…

Yet you latched on to the opinion conflating the two situations 🙄

Your disagreement does not change #history — that #Palestinians arrived from the #Greek island of #Crete and settled in the southern portion of the Land of #Judea, then known as #Canaan.

Details ➡️ https://mastodon.social/@rameshgupta/111468900312146738

@badrihippo

Show threadA Tattered ScrapbookFeb 14
@rameshgupta @badrihippo I am not sure that I “latched onto” a comparison. I think that this comparison has been underlying the discussion. To pretend otherwise would be arguing in bad faith, surely?
Show threadA Tattered ScrapbookFeb 14
@rameshgupta @badrihippo The “ancient history” argument could be used to justify all sorts of nonsense. The replacement if one population by another in Palestine is ongoing and began, if only just, within living memory.
Show threadRamesh #NotGoingBackFeb 14

⬆️ @Tattered

>> The “ancient history” argument could be used to justify all sorts of nonsense. The replacement if one population by another in Palestine is ongoing and began, if only just, within living memory.

It's becoming increasingly clear that unlike most "teachers," you like to shoot first and read later.

The link I sent you starts in the 20th century, which is within living memory of most people who care for a serious discussion. If you can't read 900 pages, read a summary

@badrihippo

Show threadA Tattered ScrapbookFeb 14

@rameshgupta @badrihippo Oh dear. The ancient history is the emigration of Palestinians from Crete.

Here’s some history for you. Israel Zangwill opposed the creation of a Zionist state in Palestine, after he had realised how densely it was *already* populated.

And I am afraid that I am going to mute this conversation. Twice now, you have misread my responses to *your* points. That’s enough.

Show threadRamesh #NotGoingBackFeb 14

⬆️ @Tattered

>> Oh dear. The ancient history is the emigration of Palestinians from Crete. Here’s some history for you. Israel Zangwill opposed the creation of a Zionist state in Palestine, after he had realised how densely it was *already* populated.

You are again commenting WITHOUT reading any of my posts that I sent you to. They start in the 20th century, with the onset of #WWI, which is what set the history of the #MiddleEast on its present trajectory.

@badrihippo